St Nazaire Submarine Pens

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Tricky Dicky, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    To anyone interested,

    On a recent trip to St Nazaire I have acquired a book (in French, but can be translated) about the Submarine base at St Nazaire.
    It covers
    1. The construction of the base
    2. The function of the base
    3. The Allied actions against the base
    4. The Liberation of the base

    An interesting detail (for me anyway) is that France looks at the 8th May 1945 as its day of liberation from the Germans, however St Nazaire was not liberated until 11th May 1945.

    So if you require some information I may be able to help or there is a link to other books that may be of use : www.grand-blockhaus.com

    TD
     
    ritsonvaljos likes this.
  2. ducatim901

    ducatim901 Junior Member

    Lorient also capitulated after the official papers were signed.
    I do not know from memory why but it could be that the Festungskommandant (commander of the fortified place) had more to say then other commanders.
    JK
     
  3. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    TD,

    As far as I am aware the U-Boat Pens were classified as Festungs and they were hard nuts to crack, by the Allied Forces.

    They were isolated when there was a refusal to surrender, surrounded and left to wait it out, whilst the other ground Forces pressed on Eastwards.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  4. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Hitler gave the order to Festung commanders that they must fight to the last man.He must have been disappointed when Cherbourg and Brest surrendered.Other Festungs such as Lorient and Royan held out without any possibility of relief although I think there was some attempt or consideration to supply Lorient by sea.. The Lorient U B base was attacked frequently by the RAF and today,rebuilt,it is a concrete city.

    While Lorient was left surrounded and isolated,Royan was left to receive attention from the FFI up to the end of hostiles. Even the French Halifax squadrons based at Elevington mounted bombing operations against it whenn the Germans had been pushed out of France.The Royan cathedral was destroyed and was,post war, replaced by a concrete one which dominates the landscape from across the Gironde.

    Lorient finally surrendered to US troops with the surrender ceremony being conducted in a pub in Etel...Bar du Bretagne,I believe.The church type benches in the pub used to be identified by name plate,indicating the German and US personalities who occupied the seats for the surrender negotiations.Was at Etel last summer and could not find the pub,whether it is still there or its use has changed, I do not know.

    When I was at Lorient,there was an open day at the Sousmarine base but only French nationals were allowed admittance...still the area is a most interesting place to visit.The Napoleon naval fortifications at Port Louis along with its museum provides a glimpse back to the time when the British was the common enemy.Across the Blavet as it flows through the Lorient basin is Larmor Plage which sited the main defence against entry to the naval base.The bunkers remain,being expensive to remove but have been incorporated into very attractive flowers beds.
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I agree with you Harry, both Lorient and St Nazaire have been totally rebuilt in concrete, it's a shame as other towns were rebuilt after the war with some of the character of the pre war.

    I was looking into the air raids on St Nazaire (I suppose this should be in a different section) and came across this amazing story of a USSAF belly gunner on a raid over the submarine pens : http://fly.historicwings.com/2013/01/the-miracle-of-st-nazaire/ - 20,000 feet fall without a chute and survived!! :eek:

    TD
     
  6. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    TD,

    Yes a truly amazing Story.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Remarkable accounts of surviving descents from aircraft without parachutes....all from similar heights...terminal velocities of about 120mph.

    Nicolas Alkemade made a similar voluntary escape from an aircraft when serving with No 115 Squadron.His aircraft was on fire over Germany and he chose to depart from the aircraft rather than perish in a raging fire.He fell into pine trees and into, some reports state, 10 foot of snow.The Gestapo refused to accept that he had survived without a parachute until he was matched with lost Lancaster...later apparently the Germans issued a chit to him,validating his ordeal.

    There was also a Russian bomber pilot,Ivan Chisov, who had to bale out of his stricken aircraft in 1942 over the battlefield.He chose not to open his chute to avoid being picked off by groundfire or German fighters.His intention was to open his chute at the minimum safe height but lost consciousness.He fell into the side of a ravine and ended up with a fractured pelvis but was back flying after 3 months.
     
  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

  9. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Thanks Tom,

    Facing death they fortunately survived.

    One of the problems encountered with parachute equipment of this era is that it was designed as "one man" gear.There was many occasions when crews had to vacate a bomber aircraft and for one reason or another,they did not have access to their observer type parachute or it had been damaged by fire.

    In desperation,some without parachutes clipped on to the harness of those who had and baled out attempting a tandem jump.All was well until the parachute canopy was opened which then applied a sudden shock loading on to the clipping.....over stressed, the clip failed and the airman without a parachute support fell to his death.

    I have often thought why the components were not specified for two man loading...seems strange that this was not addressed although the feed back may well not have been to hand.

    Since the war,it appears that this has been resolved...have seen non military personnel carrying out tandem jumps...also know of a young chap in military service, performed tandem jumps from 18000 feet....free fall for 15 secs,the parachute was then opened....safe landing for two.
     
  10. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Harry,

    I have never made a parachute jump in my life and nor do I wish to do so.

    We have several ex Paras at our branch and I admire anyone who has jumped by parachute, either as Military or otherwise.

    However I still think, even with all the safety now built in, it is a risky Sport, however exhilarating it may be for the Person jumping.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  11. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    I remember during RAF training,it was said the velocity of a parachutist on landing was akin to jumping off a 12 foot wall and it was imperative that the feet were kept together otherwise broken legs or ankles were a possibility.

    We practised from a 6 foot wall,part of the obstacle course.I suppose that there was a fear of broken bones.

    With the development of the present day chutes,it seems a graceful act,virtually gliding down at a walking pace.
     

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