SS report on conduct of British POWs in Germany

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by PsyWar.Org, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Great story Steve, thanks very much for posting it.
    Well deserved MiD.
     
  2. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Couldn't find a liberation questionnaire for E J Hughes sadly.

    I did, however, copy the MI9 Secret Camp History for Thorn and a transcription will be coming along shortly.
     
  3. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

  4. Son of POW-Escaper

    Son of POW-Escaper Senior Member

    This is a terrific thread. Many thanks for starting it, Lee.

    During my research, I came across another interesting story.

    In Sept/Oct '42, a group of British and Allied POWs was being purged from Stalag Luft 3 to Oflag XXIB in Schubin (Poland), escorted by none other than the head guard of Luft 3, Oberfeldwebel Hermann Glemnitz. One must first understand the background of Glemnitz, a hero of WW1. As a member of the Luftwaffe too old to fight in WW2, he was given "easy duty" at Luft 3. He was clearly not a Nazi, and while he was respected by the prisoners for his fair treatment of them, he was also feared because he was incredibly diligent and good at his job. It is said that he and his men discovered approx 100 of the 103 tunnels dug by prisoners at Luft 3.

    When Glemnitz and the group of prisoners arrived at Schubin (which was administered by the Wehrmacht), Glemnitz made a point of warning his army colleagues that the Luft 3 airmen were a dangerous group of escapers, and that extra care should be taken in guarding them. Apparently the Wehrmacht knew better, and laughed off Glemnitz' warnings.

    On his way out of Schubin to go back to Luft 3, Glemnitz advised his former charges to go ahead and escape, and show the Wehrmacht for the idiots Glemnitz knew them to be. The POW's laughed, and replied in German "Befehl ist befehl" (an order is an order).

    Shortly thereafter, Eddie Asselin and Tex Ash (a Montreal pilot and a Texan pilot in the RCAF) masterminded a tunnel out of Schubin through the cesspit under the officers' mass latrine. Some 34 Allied officers (including my father) escaped through that tunnel.

    In 1970, for the 25th anniversary of the end of the war, the Ex-RCAF Prisoner of War Association held a massive reunion in Toronto. A VP of the Association, Don Morrison (a fighter pilot who'd lost part of a leg when he was shot down) was also a VP of Air Canada, and was able to scrounge up a free return air ticket from Germany. The guest of honour at the reunion? None other than Hermann Glemnitz. He was billeted in my home for 3 days, and a nicer old gent you couldn't hope to meet.

    Marc

    Glemnitz & Dad | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
     
    PsyWar.Org likes this.
  5. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    A marvellous anecdote Marc and what a nice gesture to arrange for his invitation and transport to the reunion.

    Regarding the opening post, I've also found the English text reproduced in the Stalag Luft III Sagan history. It includes the comment that the text is an English translation from a document discovered by the Allied Control Commission in Germany. That gives me another lead in tracking down a copy of the original.

    The MI9 Stalag Luft III history is around 300 pages, although some of the pages are missing. I'm hoping to find a copy of it in Air Intelligence records including the missing pages as it looks well worth reproducing.
     
    Son of POW-Escaper likes this.
  6. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    If I remember correctly,Glemnitz was known by RAF Kriegies as "The Ferret".

    Many from Stalag Luft 111 remember him as displaying a sense of sarcastic humour as only a man in his position could direct at those in his charge."Well,why are you not digging today"he once asked some Kreigies."It's bad weather to be above ground".On another occasion he remarked to Kreigies,"I hear that the Allies have selected Sagan as the place which to open the second front".

    Reminds me of a man who reported to me who was in the TA and I had to sign his clearance for attending the annual summer camp.As I signed the form,I glanced up at David and said "David, Will we hold them on the Somme".David went out of the office chuntering under his breath....he did not accept my humour as I am sure the Kriegies did not accept "The Ferret's".
     
  7. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Marc,

    I recall your description of Hermann Glemnitz when we had lunch some time back. Considering the circumstances, it is not only a great honour for him to have been invited to the reunion but it also speaks volumes about his character that he maintained the respect of his enemies. He must have been a fascinating character.
     
  8. Son of POW-Escaper

    Son of POW-Escaper Senior Member

    If I remember correctly,Glemnitz was known by RAF Kriegies as "The Ferret".

    Many from Stalag Luft 111 remember him as displaying a sense of sarcastic humour as only a man in his position could direct at those in his charge."Well,why are you not digging today"he once asked some Kreigies."It's bad weather to be above ground".On another occasion he remarked to Kreigies,"I hear that the Allies have selected Sagan as the place which to open the second front".

    Reminds me of a man who reported to me who was in the TA and I had to sign his clearance for attending the annual summer camp.As I signed the form,I glanced up at David and said "David, Will we hold them on the Somme".David went out of the office chuntering under his breath....he did not accept my humour as I am sure the Kriegies did not accept "The Ferret's".

    Actually, Glemnitz' special team of guards was collectively known as "Ferrets" for their regular pastime of crawling under the prisoners' huts (which were built on brick pylons elevated about 24 inches) to search for evidence of tunnelling. Most of them (including one nicknamed "Rubberneck") wore one piece coveralls to protect their uniforms from getting dirty. They also carried metal rods, which they poked into the ground, searching for hollow voids.

    Marc
     
  9. Son of POW-Escaper

    Son of POW-Escaper Senior Member

    Marc,

    I recall your description of Hermann Glemnitz when we had lunch some time back. Considering the circumstances, it is not only a great honour for him to have been invited to the reunion but it also speaks volumes about his character that he maintained the respect of his enemies. He must have been a fascinating character.

    Tim,

    A few Kriegies hated him, but most realized he was just doing his job, and he was damned good at it. He was certainly no Nazi. Most prisoners, from what I'm told, respected his abilities and his determination, characteristics that they themselves valued for their own escape activities.

    I just remembered another good story about Glemnitz. There was a "duty pilot" who logged each German guard into and out of each compound at Luft 3, so that tunnellers could always know how many ferrets were in the compound at any time, and so no ferret could hide and come out at a bad moment to catch tunnelling activity. One day, Glemnitz entered the compound, walked up to the duty pilot and asked him which of his ferrets was "in". The duty pilot told the truth, "none", and Glemnitz freaked out. Several of his team was AWOL, and he left the compound furious. It was later learned that he had cancelled ferrets' leaves and threatened to send a couple to the Russian front.

    It's a shame that I was only 13 in 1970, so I didn't get much chance to really ask him any serious questions. I do remember he and my Dad having many good laughs...

    Marc
     
  10. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    True.There are a number of POW accounts of the antics of Rubberneck.I recollect a photograph of him which reflects the nickname given to him by the Kriegies.

    Regarding Glemnitz his nickname again from accounts of Kriegies was the "The Ferret" as distinct from the other ferrets...no doubt relating to his supervisory position.
     
  11. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Tim,

    A few Kriegies hated him, but most realized he was just doing his job, and he was damned good at it. He was certainly no Nazi. Most prisoners, from what I'm told, respected his abilities and his determination, characteristics they they themselves valued for their own escape activities.

    I just remembered another good story about Glemnitz. There was a "duty pilot" who logged each German guard into and out of each compound at Luft 3, so that tunnellers could always know how many ferrets were in the compound at any time, and so no ferret could hide and come out at a bad moment to catch tunnelling activity. One day, Glemnitz entered the compound, walked up to the duty pilot and asked him which of his ferrets was "in". The duty pilot told the truth, "none", and Glemnitz freaked out. Several of his team was AWOL, and he left the compound furious. It was later learned that he had cancelled ferrets' leaves and threatened to send a couple to the Russian front.

    It's a shame that I was only 13 in 1970, so I didn't get much chance to really ask him any serious questions. I do remember he and my Dad having many good laughs...

    Marc

    Did they speak English or German when he was here? Or switch to German when someone else was present.:D
     
  12. Son of POW-Escaper

    Son of POW-Escaper Senior Member

    A bit of both, Tim. :)

    Marc
     
  13. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Something I was rather pleased to have picked up recently, an MI9 recognition aid or 'Blood Chit'. This one was issued to RAF aircrew that might find themselves in Soviet held territory.

    [​IMG]

    Blood chits were not issued in western European operations but were in the Far East, Middle East and for aircrew flying over Eastern Europe.

    In several languages they explain that the holder is an Allied serviceman and that a reward would be given for any assistance given to them.
     
  14. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi Lee,

    It was good to read on post 63 above the MI9 POW Camp Secret Histories for Stalag XXa Thorn. In para 2, The Escape Organisation, my father's escape (Sgt F Foster) with L/Cpl Coulthard to the Swiss border is mentioned under "persistent escapers".

    Appendix B, listing the various escapes, gives some details of the esape made by Sqn Ldr Paddon in 1942 before being court martialled. I have attached below two pages of a 12 page letter written by my father after the war giving details of the swiss border ecape to L/Cpl Coulthard's parents. Of interest in the letter is my father's account of Sqn Ldr Paddon's escape where the camp RSM, RSM Sivers, asked dad if the Sqn Leader could take their place. It appears he got out in a very ad hoc way and the boys back at the camp covered for him for some time to stop the man hunt starting immediately. A fine example of a quickly organised escape to prevent a harsh punishment. Dad calls the Squadon Leader "Sqn Ldr Patton" in his letter but is without doubt the same man.

    The letter has page one missing and only goes up to page 12 but covers in detail the preparation phase and the train journey up to Berlin. I have looked high and low for the missing pages but can't find them. Have only attached the 2 pages relevant to Sqn Ldr Paddon's escape and will post the rest separately. Steve
    Escape 4.jpg

    Escape 5.jpg
     
  15. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Brilliant Steve, this is really great!

    Coincidentally I have a particular interest in Sqd/Ldr Paddon and have a copy of his MI9 escape report and appendix C. Will transcribe it and add it to the thread. The camp in Southern Germany that he was sent from was Oflag IVC Colditz.

    My interest stems from the "Paddon Escape Rules" published in Pat Reid's book "Colditz - The Full Story", which Paddon drew up after an earlier unsuccessful escape attempt. He mentions that he was caught due to a bad ID document.

    From the description it sounds exactly like a fake Ausweis produced by the Political Warfare Executive and passed onto MI9 via SOE. (I know this because the Ausweis is in PWE archives, another copy in the MI9 historical report and there's a photograph of one that was smuggled into Colditz inside a wooden calendar.)

    According to the "Paddon Escape Rules" this Ausweis was totally phoney and not based on a genuine document. The odd thing is there is a conflict in dates between when PWE produced the fake and when Paddon made the escape attempt. The escape seemingly happened before the fake was produced by a few months. I've been trying for years to establish whether this was the PWE fake Ausweis or not that let Paddon down.

    According to SOE records, the fake documents sent to POW camps by MI9/IS9 were deliberately of a lower quality than those issued to SOE agents. Some being complete fantasy documents. Also the forged ration coupons for travellers were the same forgeries as those being dropped by the RAF, so German authorities would have already been on the outlook for them.



    Lee
     
  16. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    the thread that just keeps on giving!

    The balls of the man, to make a tourist
    detour and visit Hitler's beer cellar, lol!!
     
  17. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    At post 60 above I attached my father's letter to MI9 detailing his and L/Cpl Coulthard's escape bid from XXA to the Swiss border. It is thought that Coulthard's posthumous MiD was awarded on the strength of dad's letter.

    I also have a 12 page letter written by dad, to who I am not sure, but possibly L/Cpl Coulthard's parents. It gives the detail of their preparation and escapades whilst on the loose in Germany; also details of Sqn Ldr Paddon's escape. It appears that dad framed the editor of the camp magazine, a Sgt Chappel who was a collaborator, so he could become the editor and thus have access to a typewriter. It was on this typewriter that dad did all of the forging. As an aside I read on another thread on this forum that Chapple received 15 years hard labour from a British Court Martial for collaboration with the enemy.

    First 6 pages attached, I have scanned them in black and white to get them below 2mb but they are unfortunately .tif images so will have to be opened individually

    Steve

    View attachment Escape 1.tif

    View attachment Escape 2.tif

    View attachment 94806

    View attachment Escape 4.tif

    View attachment 94808

    View attachment Escape 6.tif
     
  18. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    BarbaraWT likes this.
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  20. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    This is such a laugh. I'm wondering if the writer went to Stalag XXA where Fred Foster and Antony Coulthard were POWs? The men suffered with lice, hunger and hard labour.
     

Share This Page