SS Leibstandarte and Chaplain, The Rev. Reginald Podmore RAChD

Discussion in '1940' started by Drew5233, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Unit identified by Officers Field Returns

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  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No mention of his death in the diary which suggests he was away from the main unit. I think the name of the Batman is required to take this any further. Shame the Church Times never replied to my email.

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  3. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Andy, I probably should have had this thought last week: what about the missing files? Any RASC ones might be a bit thick, but is there one for RAChD?
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Andy,

    The officer return is clearly marked 'III Corps Ammunition Park" - is that WO167/161 ? If so then NA have mis-titled it slightly.

    Was there no full diary for HQ under 161 ?

    WO167/162 is also a little odd as it appears only to relate to 116 Coy. and not the whole of No. 9 Sub-park. Did you notice that it was commanded by a 2nd Lieutenant (Acting Major !!!)

    What made you think that the chaplain was with 9 sub-park, or did I miss something ?
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    RASC Missing File (if one exists) will be massive. There isn't one for RAChD.

    Oh Lord ...Well done for opening a box of frogs Rich ! I assumed he was with 9 Sub-Park as the pages above are from that file. 9 Sub-Park being the name written on the front.

    I have all of the following so I'll check them all in a bit more detail later:

    WO 167/181 III Corps Ammunition Company
    WO 167/182 III Corps 9 Sub-Park
    WO 167/183 III Corps 10 Sub-Park
    WO 167/184 III Corps 11 Sub-Park
     
  6. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    There is a GHQ Deputy Chaplain General file in the BEF series WO167/31. I'll have a look on Thursday if I go. If someone was tracking the Chaplains Dept Officers, it might be this guy.
     
  7. sebfrench76

    sebfrench76 Senior Member

    I will look with interest where this thread is going...
    SS were so well-educated boys,cańt believe they could hurt a Padre,héhéhé...
    Surely the French who shooted him...
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    WO 167/181 III Corps Ammunition Company
    WO 167/182 III Corps 9 Sub-Park
    WO 167/183 III Corps 10 Sub-Park
    WO 167/184 III Corps 11 Sub-Park

    I've finished reading all of the above and he gets no mention. I think Rich is correct, he was part of III Corps Ammunition Company and the field return has been misfiled in III Corps 9 Sub-Park.

    So how do we find out the name of a Batman?
     
  9. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    So how do we find out the name of a Batman?

    Ask Bruce Wayne.
     
  10. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Ask Bruce Wayne.


    I was thoroughly enjoying reading this excellent research thread until I got to the above.

    There's always one........
     
  11. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I was thoroughly enjoying reading this excellent research thread until I got to the above.

    There's always one........

    It is an excellent thread, and Drew's work is superb as usual, but I simply couldn't resist a set-up line like that. My apologies.
     
  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Andy, I fear that unless there was a casual reference in the diaries, it isn't going to be possible to track down an individual batman / driver. I don't think that you can do much now except leave it up on the internet and hope that a new clue turns up at some point.

    The odds are that he was taken prisoner. He certainly doesn't seem to be listed on CWGC.

    Let's hope that a survivor of 3 Corps Amn. Park remembers the Chaplain's driver.
     
  13. drongen

    drongen Junior Member

    I have been following this one for some time. Very interesting research.

    I wanted to check in the Leibstandarte docs if they mentioned the incident, but they were further west. I think our father fell upon the SS Totenkopf Division. It was SS-T.-IR 3 that took Divion. I translate from the unit chronicle: ‘SS-T.-IR 3 covers with one bat. the left flank near Bruay and with the bulk of the regiment near Divion’. Unfortunately nothing about the incident with father Podmore. The SS-Verfügungs Division was also in the area.
     
  14. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks for clarifying the likely unit. Sometimes the sheer quantity of information from the British side is a little overwhelming and more attention needs to be paid to German records.

    The poor Chaplain seems to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time and his car wouldn't have carried any distinctive markings. It was a fair target to a reconnaissance unit.
     
  15. Gooseman

    Gooseman Senior Member

    The poor Chaplain seems to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time and his car wouldn't have carried any distinctive markings. It was a fair target to a reconnaissance unit.

    "Any distinctive markings". Interesting observation. Were there distinctions for Chaplains in the British army? We are aware that they were protected by the Geneva convention in the same article as medical personnel, but I know of no distinction in the Dutch army, then and now. Perhaps the British did have a distinction though.

    In my own army time, one of the chaplains was practically a neighbour of mine and as such we drunk one or two together. I never noticed any specific markings on his jeep to be honest. I never gave it too much thought either, I must admit. I only vaguely remember the tactical sign on the vehicle, but that was so tiny it wouldn't be noted.

    As far as I know military vet's were also protected under the conventions, as non-combattants. I know of no sign there too. And I don't think they were allowed to wear the red-cross signs, or were they?
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    British Army Padre's wear the Red Cross in today's British Army.
     
  17. Gooseman

    Gooseman Senior Member

    British Army Padre's wear the Red Cross in today's British Army.

    Thnx, but in those days too? I am quite certain that ours didn't, although they did wear the traditional purple scarf (sorry, don't know the proper word in English) and clearly had the bible as their personal 'weapon'. But that wasn't mentioned in the international coding. And I also know that some of the Chaplains were quite brave too, trusting in their God to let them do their work safely, thus risking much to give perishing men their final absolution and more of that.

    Interesting point that one tends to overlook normally.
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I'm pretty sure that I've seen Jeeps in 1944 /5 photos stating 'Chaplain' on the windscreen and displaying a crucifix but it seems to have been more related to traffic control / access than as a recognition symbol.

    I can find no reference in any ACIs relating to markings of recognition signs for chaplains. The International Red Cross markings are referred to.

    As far as I can tell, a Chaplain in 1940 is likely to have been in an Austin 8hp or impressed civilian car with standard HQ Arm of Service markings. If he was with 3 Corps Ammunition Park, his car would have had the 'fig leaf' Formation sign and a red / green AoS with white Corps bar above, bearing the serial '43' and would not have been distinguishable from any other transport belonging to that unit.
     
  19. Gooseman

    Gooseman Senior Member

    I'm pretty sure that I've seen Jeeps in 1944 /5 photos stating 'Chaplain' on the windscreen and displaying a crucifix but it seems to have been more related to traffic control / access than as a recognition symbol.

    I can find no reference in any ACIs relating to markings of recognition signs for chaplains. The International Red Cross markings are referred to.

    As far as I can tell, a Chaplain in 1940 is likely to have been in an Austin 8hp or impressed civilian car with standard HQ Arm of Service markings. If he was with 3 Corps Ammunition Park, his car would have had the 'fig leaf' Formation sign and a red / green AoS with white Corps bar above, bearing the serial '43' and would not have been distinguishable from any other transport belonging to that unit.

    I know that in my own army time we had both katholic and protestant Chaplain and those had a small white crucifix on their Landrovers/Jeeps. Nothing else. They were part of battalion staff, I am certain, for I myself was too. They had the 'SSV' addition to the tactical battalion sign, like all staff members, and the white crucifix right next to the tactical sign. Not a sign that was easy to recognize, let alone from a distance.

    I think that the same applied to other non-combattants, who were protected by the international codes. Like the veterinary services or pharma groups. I known that static services of these branches often used the red cross, but not in the field.

    In my time too - by the way - often red cross signs were covered in front formations. I was for example in a reconnaissance battalion and our medical troops were obligated to cover their red-crosses virtually all the time. They had specific covers for that. Obviously for tactical reasons. German medics did the same. For example their airborne medics were basically armed fighting troops with assault weapons and only wore red cross armbands in their medical facilities when they were actually employed as medics. The same applies to their doctors, who were officers first and doctors second. That caused some problems when medics were killed in action and some thought that they had been killed while nutering patients. When one doesn't wear the sign and/or doesn't behave according to the rules, the protection from the code no longer applies. That is a thin red line ...
     
  20. james8857

    james8857 New Member

    Hello:

    I don't know if anyone is still interested in this. I am the SSJE archivist in Boston. Father Podmore was a member of this community. His batman's surname was Randall.

    There are a couple of letters from Father Podmore, dated 3 February, 1940 and 14 May 1940 in the Cowley April and June 1940 Cowley Evangelist. (The CE was the monthly newletter of the English SSJE). He is noted as missing in July, August and September. A very brief obituary without any details appears in the October 1940 CE. More details of his death appear in the August 1946 CE.

    On the anniversary of a community members death we read their obituary at the final service of the day. If you like I can send it to you.

    James SSJE
     
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