Phaethon- I wouldn't go as far as to say that the 6th S.A.Armoured div were a mainstay of the Armies in Italy and as you mentioned - we had the British 6th Armoured - the 1st had been broken up for spares in Oct/Nov '44 - we still had the 5th Canadian Armoured until February '45- The Kiwi's were acknowledged as a semi armoured Div owing to their Armoured bde as was the Polish 2nd Division - we also had a number of Armoured bdes such as 4th(RSG"s -3rd COLY-44RTR) - 7th(2nd-6th & 8th RTR) - 9th(3rdKOH-7thQOH-14/20th KH - Wilts - Warwks) - 21st Tank(12-48th RTR - 145 RAC) - 23rd Armoured(40-46-50thRTR) - 25th Tanks(NIH- 51st RTR - 142RAC) - and it is also true that 25th Tanks were reduced to an Armoured /Engineers with 51st RTR with "funnies - and Gerry's NIH took on our ( 145th RAC) task in 21st Tank bde - but by the end we had all but the 5th Canadians still in the line for 8thArmy. All good and experienced Tank regiments . The 6th S.A. actually took over from the 21st Tanks and 1st Canadian Infantry at Agnani at the top of the Liri Valley in early June '44 on the liberation of Rome - and went off with 6th Brit Armoured- 78th Div and 9th Armoured bde towards Lago Trasemino for their first battle at Chiusi where their maps were folded the wrong way and they thought the rail station was the main town - meanwhile the main German force was waiting them in the City - half a mile away . They were with US 5th Army from Agnani until the end as PeterGH points out - he joined them as an interpreter close to the end ... Cheers
Gerard Norton VC MM was a South African serving in the Hampshires in Italy. GERARD NORTON VC Not only was he awarded the VC but an MM when he was a ranker. Norton was then serving as a sergeant with the Kaffrarian Rifles the unit in which he had enlisted as a private soldier in 1940, also played rugby. Ironically, he shortly afterwards broke an ankle while captaining a South African side in a rugby match in Nile Delta.
Phaethon- The 6th S.A. actually took over from the 21st Tanks and 1st Canadian Infantry at Agnani at the top of the Liri Valley in early June '44 on the liberation of Rome - and went off with 6th Brit Armoured- 78th Div and 9th Armoured bde towards Lago Trasemino for their first battle at Chiusi where their maps were folded the wrong way and they thought the rail station was the main town - meanwhile the main German force was waiting them in the City - half a mile away . Very embarrassing, but I have to admit I did it myself as well. We went on maneuvers with a mechanised infantry company. We were tasked to lay a bridge across a river while the infantry gave us supporting fire. We got lost and started laying the bridge from the 'enemy' side. Maybe it's a South African way of confusing the enemy.
We don't seem to hear that much here of the South African contribution to WW2. Snippets, and references to units present here and there, but comparatively little of real substance. It's even proving a little tricky Googling up decent stuff on them. Anyone care to share any decent links to sites or books covering South African WW2 activities? Eg: 1 Squadron SAAF - Home South African Military History Society - Journal- The South African Irish Regiment: An Exemplar of the Military Traditions of the Irish in South Africa South Africa War Graves Project SANMMH ~A 6th South African Armoured Division. Castiglioni del Pepoli during WW2 - my father Jimmy Dyssel and my uncle Vernon Dyssel were both billeted there at the same time during the war. After the war my father went back many times to see the family he stayed as they had become friends. In about 2007/2008 a road was name in honour of the 6th South African and these photos were sent to my father. Unfortunately he was not well enough to travel to Castiglioni to see this and sadly he died in 2009. I do hope that I have attached the photos correctly !
Quite a few South Africans served in SOE, one Major Clutton won his first MC during WWI, in WWII he became a Jedburgh with operational missions in both France and Holland, he won a second MC in WWII. Jack Gage won an MC in Greece with the RSR, and other South Africans served in Yugoslavia and Italy. One of the problems with the 'colonials' they were often forgotten by their own units and by the Brits post war!
Adam NO ONE can dispute the contribution of the South Africans in ww2- but sometimes it must have been infuriating for their Corps Commmander in the desert Lt.Gen Norrie to get them moving particularly around Sid Rezigh when the G.O.C Pienaar felt it necessary to have cabinet meetings while they studied the latest orders- this caused some important delays in the execution of operations in which men were killed nor was their reputations enhanced when the G.O.C. Kloppers surrendered 33,000 men at Tobruk ..notwithstanding Auchinleks claim that Tobruk was no longer important to him....in the midst of the Gazala Gallop all the way back to El Alamein. So there were a few raised eyebrows when their 6th Armoured Div appeared at Agnani to take over from us and the Canadians- on their way to their first battle at Chiusi but happily they recovered and performed well with 5th US Army- and we had a well known South African as our 2i/c until he was promoted to Squadron leader and winning the M.C.- Major Christopher Newton-Thompson - known as a rugby player of some note. Cheers
Marmaduke Thomas St. John Pattle3 July 1914 – 20 April 1941 (aged 26)Nickname"Pat"Place of birthButterworth, Cape ProvincePlace of deathEleusis Bay near Athens, GreeceAllegianceUnited KingdomService/branch Royal Air ForceYears of service1936–1941RankSquadron LeaderUnitNo. 80 Squadron RAF No. 33 Squadron RAFBattles/warsWorld War II North African campaign Battle of Greece AwardsDistinguished Flying Cross & Bar Squadron Leader Marmaduke Thomas St. John "Pat" Pattle DFC & Bar (3 July 1914 – 20 April 1941) was a South African-born Second World War flying ace for the Royal Air Force. Pattle was a fighter ace with a very high score, and is sometimes noted as being the highest scoring British and Commonwealth pilot of the Second World War. If all claims made for him were in fact correct, his total would be in excess of 51. However, it can be stated with a degree of confidence, that his final score was at least 40.
He served in Tobruk until it fell in 1942. Then POW in Italy and Austria. See http://www.mikesadlerbooks.com for his full story. Jeremy
It is Kaffrarian not Kaffarian Rifles. Got its name from what the area was called when the Regiment was raised Kaffraria, the original members had a high percentage of Germans .
Sapperclaw Even my posting of that incident is two and half years ago…..my memory of the incident goes even further back but is still remembered although I couldn't give you a reference but it was very easily done with the maps we had to put up with at that time PLUS unlike the Rail Stations in the UK which invariably run through the centre of towns and cities but MOST Italiian Stations are placed around half a mile away from the centres - I did not include that comment to disparage the Sth Africans in any way shape or from but merely as small giggle at the time - you might note that they took over from us at the top of the Liri Valley at Agnani when we needed a few giggles..and that one was handy as we all recognized it... But perhaps you were there and have taken exception and so I would apologize for any hurt caused... Cheers
