Sorry, Another War Crimes Question

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Drew5233, Apr 5, 2009.

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  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Was there any 'War Crimes' (Shooting of prisoners and the like) committed during Op Market Garden?

    I suspect from what I've read the answer is no.

    Without seemingly pointing the finger at the Germans, the Germans committed them at Normandy and again at Malmedy in the Battle of the Bulge. SS units were involved in all three 'battles' but the shooting of prisoners etc appears to be absent during Market Garden (Thankfully). This struck me as a bit odd.

    So does anyone have any theories as to why none were committed?

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  2. AndyBaldEagle

    AndyBaldEagle Very Senior Member

    Andy
    I think you will find there were. One that springs to mind straightaway is the shhoting of Capt Brownscombe of the RAMC, outside the Elizabeth hospital, on 24th September which is outlined in a small booklet 'For No Apparent reason' by R M Gerritsen. Public record source is WO/311/376

    There was also another incident that could be classed as a War Crime, when a guard escorting prisoners shot into the back of a lorry. I think when some tried to escape, one of the casualties was Anthony Cotterell War Correspondent attached to 1st Parachute Brigade

    Cant think of any others right now though!

    Andy
     
  3. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Sadly random acts of killing by combatants will always happen , I can only imagine that war must be amongest the worst experiences that any generation can have.

    Living with it afterwards leaves its mark on the person who killed and those who saw it , we imagine such things should never be....
     
  4. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Andy,
    Over the past 2yrs or so there have been several Hundred War Crimes Files opened in W O311 and WO 309.

    One that could be of particular interest to you is WO 311/1293 which contains the Alleged shooting of British Airborne Prisoners in Hospital as the Germans could not evacuate them.

    Perhaps if you browse both Catalogues you will find more.


    Brian
     
  5. AndyBaldEagle

    AndyBaldEagle Very Senior Member

    Biran
    Thanks for that reference.
    I havent been down to PRO/TNA for some time now.. so much to do and not enough time!
    I will have a dig about when I am there, any idea which battalions?

    Thanks again

    Andy
     
  6. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Biran
    Thanks for that reference.
    I havent been down to PRO/TNA for some time now.. so much to do and not enough time!
    I will have a dig about when I am there, any idea which battalions?

    Thanks again

    Andy

    Andy,
    the Catalogue only gives the briefest of Description. I'm afraid you need to look at the Document to determine who they were.

    There are a couple of others - WO309/2035 - Alleged murder of British Prisoners at Arnhem and WO309/1951 - Shooting of P.O.W. between Arnhem and Zuphen.

    I am sure there will be more if you browse through the J.A.G. Catalogues.
    Perhaps enough for a visit to Kew.?

    Brian
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers all,

    Learn something new every day et all.

    So the next Q is to all the Airborne nuts out there. Have any of the above incidents been written into any of the Op Market Garden books that have been published?

    Regards
    Andy
     
  8. AndyBaldEagle

    AndyBaldEagle Very Senior Member

    Andy
    Not that I am aware! but then I might have to reread them all now!


    and Brian (sorry about the prvious spelling) I never need an excuse to got to Kew, just some bl**dy time!

    Andy


    Andy
     
  9. Donnie

    Donnie Remembering HHWH

    Arnhem Spearhead by James Sims has ref to an Airborne soldier being executed (shot in the back of the head) by an SS chappy whilst being searched after not wanting his wallet confiscated. In the same book a Dutch Resistance member was executed (shot through the neck).
    Small i no but an Op Garden war crime none the less.

    Hope this helps, Donnie.
     
  10. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

     
  11. AndyBaldEagle

    AndyBaldEagle Very Senior Member

     
  12. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    The Brummen incident is of course in my booklet about Anthony Cotterell who was also a victum of it.
     
  13. Stevin

    Stevin Member

    Not really Market Garden, but WO Maxwell Bell, RAAF Was shot down near Velp (very close to Arnhem) on 9 September 1944 and killed by SS the next day.

    Thanks to Huub van Sabben the mystery of PO Bell has been solved:

    P/O Maxwell Herron Bell
     
  14. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Market Garden was one of the most hard fought campaigns of the war in Europe. Though sorely tried, I never witnessed a single atrocity by our men.... British Army Discipline?
    In some ways it was a very odd campaign in that we were never quite sure where the enemy was? and indeed, we were cut off from our supplies and had to live on captured German rations. Bloody great tins of herring. I will never eat another Herring in my lifetime
    Sapper
     
  15. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    Sorry Sapper

    The men of 21 Ind Para Company, although it was the same trick as used by the Germans, were faking a surrender and when the Germans came up they laid down and men behind them openend up on the Germans
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Anymore info Philip?

    Regards
    Andy
     
  17. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    I think there was another airborne one, but have to check it, I know another German one, when POWs were shot a crossroads Utrechtseweg/Wolfhezerweg, however the culprit was shot on site by the German officer in charge of the POW party
     
  18. COMMANDO

    COMMANDO Senior Member

    I have two documents of German soldiers who did testefy on paper that they saw Allied troops shoot German POW's and then did throw them from Nymegen bridge....
     

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