Hello all, I have just received my grandfathers' service record and would like some help please! He joined and was posted to Colchester infantry training centre on 20th august 1942. In december 1942 he was posted ot 125th LAA rgt RA/ 418 Bty. There are a few things on his record that i don't quite understand and would be grateful if anyone could help clear them up! I have attached a few screen shots (not sure how to put them inline with the text just yet ) in July 1943, he was posted to Home Detail in Crewe - "surplus to w/e"... what is w/e? March 1944 he was posted to "c" bty (LAA), Depot RA. does this mean at this stage he was no longer part of 418 Bty? In march 1944 he was posted to No. 70 P.A. Centre... i can't find any reference to what the P A centre was. Again - I presume this completely seperate to 418 bty (?) as in the "unit" column, its is stamped "DEPOT R.A". during the period where the unit was listed as 70 PAC, he was at the 75th Gen Hosp FAP (if that helps?) on 19th July 1944 he "embarked UK for LCI.178" heading for North West Europe... could/would LCI178 be Landing Craft Infantry No. 178? the unit for this embarkation is marked simply as "x(vii)", and the disembarkation in NWE (the next day) is "x(i)"... is there any way of know what these units are? I know im asking a lot, but if any one can help me out with the above, or point me in the direction of more information it would be greatly appreciated. many thanks Chris Clark
War Establishment, I think - the fixed number of officers and men required by a unit. The unit was over its official strength.
These aren't units, but army administration codes. If a soldier was not with his unit, he would be assigned to one of these lists for the duration of his absence. The numerals used for each category seem to vary from commonwealth nation to nation (annoyingly), but it's for things like 'training', 'transit', 'sick', 'wounded', 'prisoner of war' etc. Edit: Some info here: The ‘X List’ was used to identify a soldier and his place/role in the system. The ‘X’ was followed by a Roman numeral, as follows: X(i) for all ranks posted to fill vacancies; X(ii) for all ranks evacuated on medical grounds (and the idea being that they would return to their unit of origin in due course); X(iii) was for prisoners of war, deserters, and soldiers held further to disciplinary action; X(iv) are un-posted reinforcements, i.e. soldiers waiting to be posted to a unit; e.g.: an escaped PoW who is fit for duty and has returned to Army lines would be on the X(iv) list while waiting to be posted to a unit. Class Z - Class A - X Code : X (viii) - British Army - WWII Edit: More here: X lists (Service Records) (In short, they're not terribly important)
Very likely, according to the list of abbreviations here: Updated Resource - Abbreviations & Acronyms
Hello Charley, Thats great information - thank you very much indeed! thats very interesting to know about the X list codes - so they basically relate to in what capacity he was serving within "70 PAC" at the time - e.g. if he was passing through, filling in for someone etc.? Now i know what to look for (i.e. "X Lists"); i can't find what X(vii) related to. Another avenue to investigate i think! thanks again chris
Not quite - assuming 70 PAC is the unit name (no idea what that is) - he would be on the X-list on his way to join that unit; if he had to be away from that unit; and later if he was stuck off that unit and sent to a new one. While present with a unit, he would not be on any list (X, Y or Z). By way of comparison, my grandfather was on the X-List when he left his infantry battalion due to illness, then assigned to another category of the X-List when discharged from hospital to a re-training camp and the a third category when traveling from said camp to join his battalion once more further north in Italy. While with his unit, he would not have been on the X-List - it's just a product of the army wanting to categorise every moment of a soldier's time overseas.
Your Grandfather must have been among the residues (remaining men left in the UK) of 125 LAA Regiment leaving for France. The bulk of 125 LAA Regt seem to have gone to France around D-Day plus 1. I have a page of unit residues which moved to the marshalling camps around Tilbury and the three batteries of 125 LAA are mentioned. They left for the marshalling area on 12 July 1944 and this is close to the date in his records. They took a number of vehicles, so may not have been on a Landing Craft Infantry (See copy below). If you can get a copy of the war diary, this may tell you more.
hi Ramacal thank you very much for that, all good stuff! may i ask where one would come across war diaries? or indeed any documents like the one you show there? am i right in thinking the National Archives? thanks again
Hi Try here - 125 Regt. | The National Archives , but don't ask NA UK for a quote, too expensive. There are a few chaps on this forum who do lookups for a modest fee. regards Robert
As different people, at different times, enter these records so sometimes you get the same thing written down in a different way such as this. The X(i) list comprises all ranks posted to fill vacancies in authorised War Establishments of a headquarters or an extra regimental unit (such as a base depot. School etc.). X-(vii) Officers & Men Seconded Seconded: detachment of a person (such as a military officer) from his or her regular organization for temporary assignment elsewhere. I am inclined to think that 70 PAC is something to do with the medical side of the army so could be personal assessment centre or Patient Arrival centre as both times it has been mentioned, he has a reclassified fitness category. Dates 17/3/44 and 8/3/44 one or other could be a clerical error. So should be either 17/3/44 to 18/3/44 or 7/3/44 to 8/3/44.
70 PAC was defiantly a RAMC unit, as have 67 PAC in 1 Corps District post May 45 and trying to find out what it means...
Robert, I would agree that's what it is, when you google the full title a lot of items come up. Quote from "That man there" by an explanation given by an RAMC corporal of the mysterious door in the guardroom labelled PAC: the initials stood for 'prophylactic ablution centre'. 75th Gen Hosp FAP. First aid post, at the time the Hospital was at Watford.
I can't say "thank you" enough - this is more info than I could have ever thought possible If that is what PAC stands for, it sounds... nasty! Would the national archives keep military medical records?
