Seaman Alfred Wilson HMS Maxim

MASON, J

Rank:Stoker 1st ClassService No:229299Date of Death:21/10/1917Regiment/Service:Royal NavyH.M.S. "Marmion." Grave ReferenceI. B. 8.CemeteryFREDRIKSTAD MILITARY CEMETERYThe Pembrokeshire War Memorials site shows his details against Monkton & Pembroke War Memorial

Sorry for delay in reply, Just out of Hosptial. Thanks for all that info, I had not considered that Kenna and Brazel surnames would be misplelt on CWGC, which from experence I should have realised and researched the possibility alot sooner.

Do not go near the memorial website you mention.

Have not yet found conclusive evidence that John Mason baptised 1893 of Pembroke Dock is related by family to Monkton. Already had the Mason you mention and the circumstances surrounding his death. I prefer to do the research for proof, and not make any prior assumptions. Just because the name on a memorial fits a name in CWGC, does not make conclusive evidence they are the same person, as experience shows.

Following date does fall within CWGC period.
# Doris Jeremiah, her headstone reads “died Oct 20 1944 aged 20 years she gave her life so others may live” unquote. Circumstances not known, may have died in air raid, but death registered at Cardigan.

Fire Officer A.D. Reynolds posted India on "War Work", that is good enough for me, for him to be a casulty of war and thus warrent being on CWGC. Mind, I have Land Army Girls killed during posting in UK in W.W. 2 and not listed CWGC, so your point taken.

Tks again for your assistance.
Rgds
Owen Ap Benfro
Pembrokeshire Military Headstones 1714 to 2010

 

Owen

if you are prepared to share the info you already have with regard to Alfred Wilson I can progress the case; likewise with Gooch

Sadly with Reynolds & your landgirl the CWGC Royal Charter prevents this

Chris

Chris

 

This is Lewis James Randelsome Westrup (or Westrop) who actually died on 31 August 1913: Lewis Westrop (1896-1913) - Find a Grave Memorial

 

Can anyone provide any more details for Alfred Wilson? I don't know if Chris ever got anywhere with this one. I believe I've found him in the 1939 Register with a birth date of 26 Oct 1898, but it says only that he was a farm labourer. Can we be certain he was Royal Navy? The MOD are struggling to find anything and are asking for a place of birth which I don't have.



EDIT: Just found the following article from the Holyhead and Anglesey Mail, 4 July 1947. It makes no mention of him being Navy or of HMS Maxim, instead it says he was a crew member of SS Catamaran. Curiously, it refers to him as a "young seafaring man", although the death register says he was 48.


(FindMyPast)

 

Paul,
His place of birth was Liverpool. See his Merchant Navy CR10 attached below - day of birth incorrect.
Details of MAXIM here - she was the Naval Armaments vesel MAXIM - NAV Maxim - Historical RFA
The newspaper item - I dont recognise any ship called CATAMARAN.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks Hugh, I've given them the place of birth and the alternative date, let's see if that does anything.

 

Nothing further from the MOD, they've given me a link to his WW1 medal card on TNA but that appears to be it. I wonder if he was actually Merchant Navy during WW2?

Medal Card of Wilson, Alfred Place of Birth: Liverpool Date of Birth: 1898 | The National Archives

 

That is a reasonable assumption, Paul. Apart from the CR10 card from 1919 in my #25, I think I have found other MN service cards for him which take him up until 1925 only. That is not to say he ceased to serve at sea in 1925, it means he may have chosen to cease service on foreign going ships and stay on the home trade, coasting or fishing fleets where records of service were in the form of paper discharge certificates. There is no further online MN service records for him so that would leave as a last resort a check of the CRS 10 docket book forms (1941-1972) at TNA . You would need to check BT 382/1971

Regards
Hugh

 

Not sure if the DC is of any help here, I can't make out what it says for her occupation (between spinster and domestic). Cause of death was tuberculosis, so certainly not an air raid death. Searches with TNA and MOD have come up with nothing so it doesn't look like she was military either, but the headstone inscription is vague enough that it could refer to plenty of other things.

 

Paul, I think it says (Spinster and upaid [unpaid] Domestic)

Regards
Hugh

 

Maid (domestic)?

 

Possibly, but in quite a few or the records I have seen, the word unpaid domestic seems to be popular - it could be either but I am sure we can say she worked in a household as a paid or unpaid domestic servant or maid.

 

This is the record TNA found for Alfred Wilson in BT 382/1971, but yet another date of birth so unclear if it's our man.

 

Thanks Paul.

I can confirm that the record above (CRS10) relates to the same man in my post #25.

This is an interesting CRS 10 and it shows no service (unless there are any missing pages) but we can take some information from it.

At the top it states "not EWO" so he was not subject to the Essential Works Order. It also states on the second page that he was "not a pool member". This basically confirms he was serving in the Merchant Navy during WW2 but has no central record - I try to explain what that means below.

In 1941 the Essential Works Order created a Merchant Navy Reserve Pool. Every seaman on discharge from a sea-going British ship of 200 gross tons and upwards (except tugs, salvage vessels and certain harbour duties) became a member of the Merchant Navy Reserve Pool, unless he was immediately re-engaged by the same employer to become an officer or rating of the Merchant Navy. To ensure that seamen remained available, they were paid to remain in the Reserve Pool, and therefore available for service, while they were ashore.

Men who were continuously employed by a single company were technically outside the Pool system — some 40 per cent of all seamen were directly employed by liner companies, the remaining 60 per cent passing through the Pool. So, it is possible he was directly employed by one company and if so, it means his CRS 10 (service record) will not show ship listings and he will probably only be shown on individual ship crew agreements but not centrally recorded, which also means that he will be difficult to trace without a known ship to start with.

In post #9 original poster Owen states this:

In post #24, Paul attaches the newspaper clipping showing him as a member of SS Catamaran (no such ship exists). If we assume Catamaran is a typographical error and a red herring, and that Owen is correct, then it is going to be difficult from official sources to get the crew listing for MAXIM as it had no ship's Official Number. Being a Naval Armaments Vessel (NAV), it sits in a grey area between merchant and naval service.

So, I reckon we need to establish definitively whether he was on NAV MAXIM or not, what the vessel's role was in 1947, what his employment relationship to the ship was, and what the nature of the ship's task was when he died? I believe the ship would have been operating under a Yard Craft Dockyard agreement. The Admiralty Yard Craft Service was the civilian service which operated auxiliary vessels for the British Admiralty, mainly in HM Dockyards or the vicinity. It was renamed the Port Auxiliary Service (PAS) on 1 October 1958 and the Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service in 1976. I confess I have no idea what records of service, if any, exist for men employed in this capacity.

Do we know if the death certificate was obtained?

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks Hugh! I've ordered a PDF copy of the DC, it's not available for download unfortunately. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Regarding his burial, although the above newspaper clipping says he was interred at St Eleth Churchyard, I've had it confirmed by the local council that he was buried at Amlwch Community Cemetery, in plot 180 Section 3, on 2 July 1947.