Russian German co-operation 1939-1941

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by Gerard, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Been doing some reading about the signing of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact in August 1939 and was wondering what sort of help the two dictatorships provided for each other. I know that the Soviet Union provided Food, Oil and other resources but where there any more practical examples? For example there is a record of the Soviets providing an icebreaker
    "Stalin" to allow the German Commerce raider "Komet" through the Ice passages in Northern Russia and to proceed into the Pacific. Has anyone else any info on this or any other examples?
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I'm sure the Russians allowed the Germans to have a naval base of sorts in the North somewhere up in the Murmansk area of the former USSR I think.

    It was used as a minor repair type place/safe haven for surface ships and U-Boats. I don't think it was heavily used though as it was quite bleak and there was little in the way of personnel and equipment based there.

    The source of info came from the BBC doc about Stalin just before Christmas.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  3. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    I'm reading the book about the series, Andy, which has prompted my initial post. Good comment though. I believe it was known as "Base North" and wasnt very popular with the Germans!

    Anyways here is some info on the voyage of the "Komet" as mentioned in my first post: The Komet Enters the Pacific | NZETC
     
  4. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

  5. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    The main cooperation between Germany and the Soviet Union (apart from the provision of grain,oil and war material travelling west which provided Hitler with the means to wage war without having to overburden German industry.) was the understanding and agreement of the spheres of influence between the Hitler and Stalin.Germany and the Soviet Union would take equal shares in Polish territory.The Polish state would no longer exist.Germany for its part, agreed not to interfere with the Soviet Union annexation of the three Baltic States.
     
  6. Juszatek

    Juszatek Junior Member

    Pictures which were given by Za Rodinu, are from Brest and made in 1939 after German and Soviet invasion on Poland. Units from both armies met in this city and there was their first contact at this war. Brest was polish city before WWII, now is belarusian.
     
  7. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Gotthard,

    The Germans had secret agreements for exchanges in weapon technology and development.

    The Luftwaffe was secretly trained up in Russia and I believe the armoured cars, up to 8 wheelers were tested out of the prying eyes of the west.

    If I remember rightly the armored cars produced were recorded as Police vehicles before the Versailles treaty was torn up.

    So there was co-operation for several years before 1939.

    History of the Soviet Union/Pre-War Soviet-German Relations - Wikibooks, collection of open-content textbooks

    Regards
    Tom
     
  8. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

    Not to mention the tank proving grounds in Kazam or something which sounded of this :) But that was pre 39 not sure it fits the thread...



    Cheers...
     
  9. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Thanks for the post Miguel and yes you are right, I was referring to co-operation post Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. The Tank program was in the mid to late 20's and was beneficial to the Germans. Must try and look up who was the Commander of the School.
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The cooperation at Kazan was pretty significant, and ran from 1924-1933 with a tense break or two in between. It was discontinued when Adolf came to power (him not really caring who saw Germany re-arm). There were even Soviet officers that attended the German Staff college.

    A fair bit of the armour ideology & technology that later proved successful for both Germany and the Soviets was hammered out at kazan in a spirit of marginal distrust combined with sometimes quite close cooperation. Perhaps more importantly it appears to have provided a place to clarify what didn't work too.

    If you think about the ongoing and highly controversial worldwide debate about armour in military circles of the 20s and 30s, and the significance of the arm when war came; then any degree of cooperation and concentration of armour devotees has to be seen as pretty advantageous to the science as a whole in that period. Both sides benefited from the others ideas (while appreciating the value of 'long spoons' as a great many cards were still played close to the chest).

    Sorry, drifted off 39-41. Really need a decent book on the Kazan school's Nazi period.
     
  11. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    (while appreciating the value of 'long spoons' as a great many cards were still played close to the chest).
    Proof of this is recorded in Guderian's memoirs when a Soviet delegation upon seeing the MkIV, insisted that the Germans were hiding their heavy tanks. They didnt realise that the Germans had nothing heavier in their armory. :unsure:
     
  12. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Apparently the documentary, "The Soviet Story" reveals the Soviet Union-German partnership in the 1930s.There was even partnership at the level of the SS and the KGB.A review of the documentary reports that Nazi film footage is included and shows the Soviet Union helping Hitler launch WW2 and providing aid to for the Nazi Blitzkrieg.

    I understand that the documentary is banned in Russia.Not surprising as the documentary has 100% input from former Soviet citizens and obviously is not supported by Russia.No doubt the documentary will be aired eventually in the West.
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  14. L J

    L J Senior Member

    look at " sovjet exports to germany: 1939 -1941
     
  15. laufer

    laufer Senior Member

    Apparently the documentary, "The Soviet Story" reveals the Soviet Union-German partnership in the 1930s.There was even partnership at the level of the SS and the KGB.

    The Gestapo-NKVD conferences were a series of meetings organized in late 1939 and early 1940, whose purpose was the mutual cooperation between Nazi Germany and Soviet Union. In spite of several differences, both Heinrich Himmler and Lavrentiy Beria had common purposes as far as the fate of Poland was concerned, and the conferences discussed coordinating plans for occupation of the Poland and in fighting the Polish resistance movement, which was an irritant to both Nazi and Soviet occupiers of Poland.

    More details in Wiki.
     
  16. SydneyNSW

    SydneyNSW Junior Member

    What can be more natural than co-operation between Gestapo and KGB(NKVD)?
    If you haven't seen it watch this movie Katyn (2007)
     
  17. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    I always thought it odd that the Soviets acted in 1945 as if they had been victims of Hitler's agression just like "everyone else" when as Gerard and others have pointed out that they perhaps more than any other had helped , co operated and assisted Hitler in the pre war years and up until 22/06/41.
    their attempts to off load their own crimes on to the Germans didn't wash in 1945 and says something about the Stalinist state, different uniforms , similar ideology and no difference.
     
  18. SydneyNSW

    SydneyNSW Junior Member

    I always thought it odd that the Soviets acted in 1945 as if they had been victims of Hitler's agression just like "everyone else" when as Gerard and others have pointed out that they perhaps more than any other had helped , co operated and assisted Hitler in the pre war years and up until 22/06/41.
    their attempts to off load their own crimes on to the Germans didn't wash in 1945 and says something about the Stalinist state, different uniforms , similar ideology and no difference.
    Oh, no difference whatsoever. Socialism is socialism, call it national or international. Even the songs and marches had been stolen from German authors to be played and sung in teh USSR.
    But what do you expect the Soviets to have done instead? Yell "Mea culpa"? They share with the Nazis the guilt of starting the war but unlike teh Nazis they emerged victorious and tried to get the most out of it.
     
  19. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Oh, no difference whatsoever. Socialism is socialism, call it national or international. Even the songs and marches had been stolen from German authors to be played and sung in teh USSR.
    But what do you expect the Soviets to have done instead? Yell "Mea culpa"? They share with the Nazis the guilt of starting the war but unlike teh Nazis they emerged victorious and tried to get the most out of it.

    I'm pretty sure that help provided to Germany by USSR didn't make great sense in rising of 3rd Reich as much as it's sounding today. Reich would rise with or without USSR's help. And Hitler will be making his steps to USSR even without any secret pacts. For Germany pact were just a strategy. For USSR pact were strategy too. But Stalin and soviet authorities as I think were busted out by their own ambitions to set up a worldwide revolution and they chosen wrong partner in it. That partner was playing in one step forward.

    And even with this all guilt on the Stalin and soviet authorities - USSR took most damage from that war, even not the authorities but country and people, which wasn't responsible for dirty political plays. So they - people that put the end of the war - earned to have a most out of the victory.
     
  20. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

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