RSM Crofts. Black Watch.

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Ray Crofts, Jul 14, 2022.

  1. Ray Crofts

    Ray Crofts New Member

    Hi, I am new to this forum and been having trouble locating any information on my Father. He signed up in 1943 with the RHR Black Watch, and ended up in Kalyan in 1946/7. He was a corporal but was made up to RSM at some point. He shipped out of India on the Empire Halladale in December 1947. Any ideas on where I might find a record of his service, he passed away 2 years ago and he woud never talk about the war.
     
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Welcome to the forum.

    I’ll ask a Moderator to move your post to a stand alone topic to hopefully attract more interest from members - especially those with an interest in Black Watch.

    Your most reliable way forward is to apply to U.K. MOD for his service records via this link -

    Requests for personal data and service records: a detailed guide

    It costs £30 and takes about a year to get the records atm due to covid backlogs.

    If you post his full name and service number - if you know it - then it will be helpful to members.

    Good Luck


    Steve
     
  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Ray,

    Welcome aboard. (Some duplication here as Steve and I were toiling away). Will send a PM with some advice. Your original post has become this thread.

    I have copied most of this post to another thread: Which British units were left in India before and at the time of Partition?

    Add what you can and include a link to this Post for the Indian aspect. Others may be help able to help now, notably where was the 2nd Bn. Black Watch before going to India. I have not looked on the site for any relevant threads.

    The 2nd Battalion of the Black Watch appear in posts 4, 6 & 12; they left from Karachi, then in newly independent Pakistan on the 27th / 28th February 1948. Pakistan being independent from 14th August and India the 15th August 1947.

    I am not familiar with the battalion's movements in India, it is possible Schofield's history may have more - I only used a Google Books limited entry.

    Kalyan is a city within the Bombay (now Mumbai metropolitan region). See: Kalyan - Wikipedia and there is a poor map on: Mumbai Metropolitan Region - Wikipedia Elsewhere it states it is 54 kms or 34 miles from Bombay. Kalyan did (and probably still) have an army cantonment and railway station. Just why he was there is unknown to me.

    There was a major British Army transit camp @ Deolali, north east of Bombay; checking mapping it is some distance from Kalyan. Perhaps he was lucky to avoid there, it was not a popular place to stay (there is a thread here I think).

    The battalion's history in India is partly documented in the first three pgs. of: https://www.indianmilitaryhistory.org/regiments/Indian Army AirborneSF.pdf There is also this, which shows them involved on North-West Frontier duties:
    Wiki has very little on their part in WW2 and has this for post-war:
    From: Black Watch - Wikipedia

    See a very short history, including their service with the Chindits: Victory in Japan - The End of World War Two - theblackwatch.co.uk

    Where was he from joining up till reaching India?

    One Indian historian refers to the Black Watch being involved in the response to the Royal Indian Navy mutiny, for five days in February 1946 after an Indian Army battalion "shot wide". See pg.48 in https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/War_in_the_Indian_Ocean/Tqr8r7EB18wC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq="kalyan"+++"black+watch"&pg=PA48&printsec=frontcover

    Wiki has a detailed entry for the mutiny (now renamed as an uprising) and the Black Watch were active at Karachi. See: Royal Indian Navy mutiny - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    New thread spun off.
    ~A
     
  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Ray,

    In the opening post you asked:
    The ship Empire Halladale was a HM Transport from 1945-1955 and Google has a number of items and the ship appears in: List of Empire ships (H) - Wikipedia

    A short history:
    From: HMT Empire Halladale

    She was committed to a regular service across the North Sea till November 1947, taking service families to Germany and bringing others back. Later she transported troops to the Korean War and Malaya, plus points between the UK and the far East.

    Then this:
    From: British troops - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

    Perhaps HMT Halladale did visit Karachi in December 1947, personally I doubt she could have done a round trip back to the UK in time to return to Karachi on 26/2/1948.

    One record on the Black Watch's final departure refers to a then month-long voyage from Karachi to Glasgow. See: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edit...dale"+++"karachi"&pg=PT44&printsec=frontcover

    That book refers to the battalion 'was depleted by demobilisation', so perhaps others left beforehand by sea?

    Note when the Black Watch did embark their families had boarded the day before. Was he there with any family?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
  6. Ray Crofts

    Ray Crofts New Member

    Many thanks to all of you for the information provided. I have attached a photo dad kept which show s him as C/Sgt Crofts 3rd row, this may help provide me with more information.[​IMG] Kalyan.jpg Kalyan.jpg
     

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