Royal Welch Fusiliers J.C Pope 202796

John Claude Pope 202796 my grandfather. Army Air Corps Parachute Regiment Royal Welch Fusiliers
Regular army emergency commissions
(W.S./Lt.1/10/42)
(T/Capt. 1/7/43)
2nd Lt 25/9/41
Any help in researching would be amazing

 

Welcome. You need to start with his service records,
Get a copy of military service records: Apply for the records of someone who's deceased - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Can you provide some further information ie date of birth, locations etc. Also useful to know what sources you have access to and already searched.

 

Hi Barbara

John Claud Pope joined the RWF on 12 Feb 1937 (4192536) as a Private and got to Sergeant before taking a Commission (202796) in 1941. His DOB is listed as 27 May 1918.

First name(s) John Claud
Last name Pope
Birth year 1918
Year 1933-39
Enlistment year 1937
Service number 4192536
Regiment Royal Welsh Fusiliers
Document type Enlistment Registers, 1920-1936
Volume Enlistment Register Book 15

I half expected to find him in 6th Royal Welch Battalion of the Parachute Regiment as they were formed from the 10th Battalion RWF. But he isn't on the officer lists in late 44 and early 45.

That just means he wasn't in Greece. The did have a rear details depot in Italy so he might have been there.

I have searched the casualty lists on FMP for either numbers and nothing which means he wasn't killed, died, wounded or taken prisoner.

Their history is here

6th Bn RW AIrborne

His service records is the only way you can confirm any of this.

Hope this helps

Gus

 

Barbara

Looking at Gus's details and your tree, you might have the wrong birth record for your man

From your tree:
England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
Name: John E Pope
Registration Date: Apr 1919
[May 1919]
[Jun 1919]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Maidenhead
Inferred County: Berkshire
Mother's Maiden Name: McLeary
Volume Number: 2c
Page Number: 610


I understand there will be a difference between the actual birth and registration but 1 year seems a lot and also his middle initial is 'E'

Might be worth checking again to make sure

TD

 

I saw the RWF record and also the tree but noticed the discrepancy in dob. Think that some additional facts are needed just to ensure this is the correct man. The obituary notice referred to on the tree states a spouse named Sue, this isn't mentioned in the tree.

 

Lt. John Claude Pope

London Gazette 24 October, 1941 page 6179
Royal Welch Fusiliers

R.W. Fus. Serjt. John Claude POPE (202796) to be 2nd Lt. 25th Sep. 1941

London Gazette 5 October, 1943 page 4527
Parachute Regiment

War Subs. Lt. J. C. Pope (202796) from R.W. Fus. to be War Subs. Lt. 1st June 1943

12th (Yorkshire) Parachute Battalion
War Diary - Normandy

11th August 1944
Place: Le Plein

1230 - Lieut. Pope and 12 OR's joined from U.K.

Not shown in Order of Battle for Operation Varsity, 24th March, 1945.

Lt. J. C. Pope held a Regular Army Emergency Commission, which most likely ceased sometime between May and July, 1946, when he is granted the rank of Hon. Lt. He is not on the December, 1946, army list. The 12th (Yorkshire) Parachute Battalion disbanded in July, 1946. He would most likely have applied for a new army commission sometime after this date.

He is not listed on the General Service Medal rolls for Palestine 1945-48.

Emergency Commissions
Glider Pilot and Parachute Corps.
Para Regt.

Lt. J. C. Pope (202796) relinquishes his commn. 20th July 1950, on enlistment in the ranks.

You need to apply for his service record to get his full details.

 

Very helpful thank you. John Claude May have lied about his DOB as I have his birth certificate and 27 May 2019 is correct . The main fact that I can’t ascertain is where and when he died. GRO deaths certificate research show no record in England and Wales of a John Claude Pope. I can’t verify the death in 2012 in Portsmouth ( spouse ‘Sue’) but it may be correct. John married Dorothy Hill in Jun 1942 in Belfast. He married Inge Ingeborg Gertrude Grasse Jan 1960 so maybe he remarried to a Sue?
Someone will maybe be able to solve the riddle.

 

According to the GRO, the John E POPE, born Q2 1919 in Maidenhead has the middle name EVELYN but you are saying he is John Claude POPE?
Could you post his birth certificate?

 

He was John Evelyn on his BC but chose his father’s name as his middle name. He went to Ellesmere College where he was CJ Pope on the Honours Board.

 

Unfortunately can't read the certificate. It seems that your grandfather went under a number of names - John Evelyn Pope, John Claude Pope, Claude John Pope + who knows?

Can you tell me the last date when he was known to be alive and the location?

I assume that you are looking for a death certificate is to apply for his service records. One of the big problems with the internet, and in particular using it for family history, is that people assume they are 100% correct and are infallible, unfortunately that is not true.

If you investigate Ancestry:
"About England and Wales, Death Index, 1989-2019
This collection is a compiled index that covers approximately 55% of the total deaths that occurred in this time period. This index provides death details for people in England and Wales, specifically their name, gender, date of birth or age at death, date of death, and residence place at death. However, they do not include the General Register Office (GRO) reference information.
Updates:
September 2019: Added new records and expanded collection to include 2018.
July 2020: Added new records and expanded collection to include 2019
May 2021: Added new records"

I noticed that the death and publication dates in the obituary on your family tree are the same which is suspicious, further research shows it is not your man.
"Pope John 11.06.1931 to 20.07.2012
After many years of illness, passed away suddenly in Worthing Hospital. Born to the late Harry and Dorothy Pope in Portsmouth. Dearly beloved husband to Sue, you will be sadly missed. xxx
Donations if desired, to go to the haematology department in Worthing Hospital as the care and treatment he received throughout his illness was excellent. Cheques made payable to 'Love your hospital' and sent to Bowley Funeral Service, 30 Keymer Road, Hassocks, West Sussex BN6 8AN.
Published in Worthing Herald on Aug. 9, 2012"

View John Pope's Notice on WorthingHerald.co.uk and share memories

 

Thank you for taking the time to help me. I am now in a muddle. You are spot on regarding the pitfalls of internet / ancestry searches. I am now confused. The last record of him ( that is truly him ) would be his marriage to Inge in 1960 Andover I suppose. I thought with that death record having parents Harry and Dorothy it was him? His parents were Harry and Dorothy. I do need a death certificate to get the service record. I’ll keep trying and if you discover anything it would be amazing.