Royal Marines Armoured Support Regiment (2RMAS) Juno, D-Day

Kan iemand mij helpen omtrent gegevens van Capt. Howard Norman RA?
Hij is geland op Juno Beach, ingedeeld bij de Royal Marines met een kleine unit van 3 Centaur tanks een een Sherman tank voor de C.O.

 

You need Richard Anderson. He posts on Tanknet and the Axis History Forum.

https://www.waterstones.com/book/cracking-hitlers-atlantic-wall/richard-c-anderson/9780811705899

All the best

Andreas

 

Hello Harrie,

Can you elaborate a bit about Capt Howard Norman, landing in JUNO Area and assigned to the Royal Marines? Can you tell us the source for this info and the exact terms used?
Since I do no see him as part of the RMAS Group, he might have been an FOO or an FOB, possibly landing with some of the elements of 1 RMASR planned to land in GOLD but who actually landed in JUNO...

Michel

PS
I just looked up your profile post which gives much more precise info:
Captain Howard Wylie Norman of the 86th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
I wish I had seen it before starting my wild goose chase over the Army List & the London Gazette!

We might be able to help if you tell us all you have collected so far and what you are looking for.

 

If Capt Howard Wylie NORMAN was from 86 Fd Regt RA and landed with elements the RM Armd Sp Gp in JUNO Area, he must have been on LCT(A) 2291 Serial 2421 carrying the Right Section of "A" Tp, 1 RM Armd Sp Bty, 1 RM Armd Sp Regt, which landed on NAN RED Beach on 7 June.

This section was commanded by Lieutenant Cecil Arthur Douglas BIRCHER, SAUDF (156480V) and comprised two Centaur IV CS SP guns, named ACHILLES and ASSEGAI.

See Royal Marines Armoured Support Regiment (2RMAS) Juno, D-Day

In addition to the two Centaurs SP guns, LCT(A) 2291 (2421) was loaded with one Universal Carrier from 86 Fd Regt RA (Capt NORMAN's FOO Party of four) plus one Crusader 40 mm Bofors SP AA gun towing a 40 mm Bofors Mk.I AA gun, both from "E" Tp, 394 LAA Bty, 120 LAA Regt and commanded by Lt BURDEN. Although the War Diary of 1 RM Armd Sp Regt gives their landing time as 0900 hrs on 7 June, on other verifiable instances it has proved to provide much earlier landing times than the actual ones. A much more reliable actual landing time is that given by 120 LAA Regt's War Diary, i.e. 1445 hrs 7 June.

 

The following is a short distillation of notes that the grandchildern found.
"If you landed on D-Day itself, the 6th of June 1944, then for the first few hours, your life expectancy was 30 minutes"
He Landed at 8.20am on Golden Beach.
He was a Captain in the Royal Artillery and was resposibli for an extra-ordinary little troupe of specialist tanks.
These little tanks were called Centaurs, and only 80 of them were ever built during WW2, sixty of them landed on D-Day itself on all 5 landing beaches.
Each little unit had 3 Centaur tanks and one Sherman tank for the C.O. and communication.
So, there were 20 of these tiny units with 20 Captains (also all from the Royal Artillery) in command of eache one, wich were manned by the Royal Marines. Only two of these Captains survived, Captain Norman being one of them.

On D-Day itself, he was slightly delayed by 20 minutes in his landing for 8.00am due to the underwater obstructions and mines, not least the enemy fire.
From family research he was in the famous "Force J" who were to land on Juno beach, because of the un-silenced guns at Reviers he was deverted to Gold, which was rigt next to it.

 

Harrie,

Thank you for this information. As you might have noticed from reading this thread and others, the summary by their grandchildren is a bit of a mix up. In order to clarify the matter, we would need a few additional answers:

Have the grandchildren requested Capt Norman's Service Records?

Do they know for certain that he was part of 86 Fd Regt on D Day? Do they know his Service Number?

It would be helpful if they would allow you to post the original notes as written by their grandfather here. We should be able to find more clues and make better sense out of them.

I do not have the War Diary for 86 Fd Regt, which should answer many questions. The Field Return of Officers should have the name and Service Number of Capt Norman (if indeed he was part of this unit), and other parts should tell us his exact role on D Day as well as before and after.

If his grandchildren want to know about Capt Norman's war service, they should procure this War Diary, starting with the months of May and June 1944, and share it with us so that we may interpret it for them. There is a couple of members in this forum who provide very reasonably priced copying services from the National Archives.

Michel

 

Hi all,

Whilst conducting my own research into an officer who served with RMASG, I came across this NAMED group photo - taken in 1944.




Perhaps we can start putting some faces to the names in the War Diary and DDAY report. I also note that Captain R Kaye appears in this photo.

Cheers

 

Fantastic find! They appear to be all the officers in Royal Marine Armoured Support Group prior to D Day.

Edit: not sure after all that the photo was shot prior to D Day, because neither Brig Sanders (KIA 20 Jun 44) nor Capt Jebb (prob WIA 6 Jun 44) are listed, plus most of the awards mentioned were given after D Day.

 

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum.

As the subject I am interested in is covered in a lot of detail in this thread already, I thought it would make sense to join in. I hope that's okay.

As a personal writing project I am writing about my historical scuba dives around Britain. I am planning to dedicate a chapter to the Centaur tanks and D7 bulldozers site off Selsey Bill on the South Coast of England, which I visited a few years back with the Nautical Archaeology Society dive club, of which I am a member.

I am trying to find stories to include about:

1. The men on board LCT (A) 2428 who have not been researched or included in any other reports (particularly those of the Liverpool Irish).

2. Men who made it to Juno Beach who supported the first waves (or arrived soon after) and operated either Centaur CS tanks of D7 bulldozers.

I have found many relevant stories on ww2talk, and in this particular thread.

I envisage my writing project to be self-published within the next year. I am more than happy to run any writing past contributors to ensure appropriateness, and accuracy. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Many thanks

Duncan Ross

 

Welcome to the forum
thought it might be an idea to show the info/ website

Landing Craft 2428 - Maritime Archaeology Trust.

https://maritimearchaeologytrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/LCT2428_FINALREPORT_WEB.pdf

 

Yes, a great idea. Thank you

 

Hi Duncan,

From 8 KINGS War Diary (courtesy forum member Michael O'Neil here: 8th Irish The Kings Liverpool Regiment), the report by Lt James Charles ORRELL (295858) :



Michel

 

Please note that the "Final Report" has a few minor inaccuracies, e.g. it's not "Centaur CS IV" or "Centaur Close Support Mark IV", which would mean that the Centaur CS tank had four different versions, but "Centaur IV (CS)" or "Centaur IV CS" or just "Centaur IV", meaning that the fourth version (Mark IV) of the Centaur was the Close Support version.

Other corrections: the D8 bulldozer was not converted into an armoured version by Jack Olding Ltd. The armoured D7 (in this version) was not fielded by American engineer units (or any other US unit) during Operation NEPTUNE.

Another, more problematic mistake is the identification of the unit on board. "The bulldozers and jeep were of 3rd Canadian Infantry Division’s 18 Canadian Field Company, Royal Canadian Engineers." should read "The bulldozers were part of Special Increment (Bulldozers) 3rd Canadian Field Park Company, Royal Canadian Engineers, and the jeep was of 18th Canadian Field Company, Royal Canadian Engineers, both units belonging to 3rd Canadian Infantry Division."

 

The party of 15 men (one section) with one Jeep and one Truck Airborne of 18 Fd Coy RCE were part of No. 1 Platoon commanded by Lt R.C. Eddy, RCE and tasked for Beach Clearance under command of 5 Fd Coy RCE. They are mentioned in the War Diary of 18 Cdn Fd Coy RCE:

"Lt. Eddy and party failed to arrive, the craft having dropped out of the convoy on D-1."


Source: War diaries : T-18396 - Héritage

Michel

 

The OC Troops on board LCT(A) 2428 was Temporary Lieutenant Victor Jack SYBORN, RA (277745), seniority 5.6.43, Troop Lieutenant (i.e. commanding the Right Section) of Q Troop, 3 Royal Marine Armoured Support Battery (and not 4 Battery as stated in the Final Report).

The Final Report also mentions "8th Battalion the Kings (Liverpool Irish) Regiment" which should of course read "8th Battalion (Irish), The King's Regiment (Liverpool)" or just "8th (Irish) Battalion the King's Regiment" as designated in their own War Diary.

Michel

 

Hi Michel,

Thank you so much for the information you've provided. Especially the fascinating first-hand written account by Lt James Charles Orrell. As I'm based in Liverpool I thought it would be appropriate to include something from the 8th, and this is ideal. Do you know whether including some of the diary in a written piece would be okay? any kind of copyright issues?

I wonder James Orrell has descendants in the city still? I may investigate.

Also, it's good to know that you have such detailed knowledge of the subject. If you are available for a little proof reading of a small chapter at some point, please let me know!

Many thanks again

Duncan

 

Hi Michel,

I was looking at the second page of this report (attached). In the remarks section (d), do you know what OR stands for? Ordnance/obstacle removal perhaps? and (e) W/T - is this wireless transmitter? The absence of a radio would have made a huge problem I assume.

In the remarks section (c) it states that they were on the beach before the infantry - it never occured to me that there were men clearing the way for the landing crafts and were truly the first ones to land, even if they weren't in an attacking role.

Duncan

 

OR stands for Other Rank(s). Note that "ORs" is not an authorized abbreviation, because no "s" is supposed to be added for plural for this particular abbreviation. This finer point of regulation was however largely disregarded.

W/T is Wireless Telegraphy.

Obstacle Clearance was not abbreviated alone, because "OC" means "Officer Commanding". It however appears in some specialised abbreviations such as OCT (Obstacle Clearance Team), or LCOCU (Landing Craft Obstruction Clearance Unit) which used LCA(OC) (Landing Craft, Assault (Obstacle Clearance).

For the list of authorized abbreviations see:
New Resource - Field Service Pocket Book - Abbreviations

and here for a broader list:
Updated Resource - Abbreviations & Acronyms

Michel

 

That's excellent, thanks for your help Michel.

Duncan

 

Hello folks, I'm new to this site but have read all the 2RMASR content with great interest as I'm researching my father's military service ahead of the 80th D-Day commemorations. He was an RAC tank driver with the 15/19 KRH seconded in the spring of 1944 to the RMAS groups to drive Centaur tanks that had their engines hastily reinstated. He went ashore on Juno on D-Day.
My query is as follows, and I wonder if anyone has the solution or can assist :- I have copies of what appear to be the Officer personnel lists for the RMAS groups for June 44. Does anyone know if there are equivalent personnel lists/schedules for all Other Ranks available ?
Many thanks in anticipation.
Mark