Red Arrow Crash

Wowtank - we're still making the Hawk! BAE Systems MIA is still building them at Warton.

I know have a very good friend at BAE, just thinking of the ones the Arrows were using.

 

Well, as far as I know the Red Arrows have written-off nine during their service on Hawks, so I assume they're not their original T1's. Didn't they upgrade to T1As a few years back?

 

Well, as far as I know the Red Arrows have written-off nine during their service on Hawks, so I assume they're not their original T1's. Didn't they upgrade to T1As a few years back?

Don't know, T1as could still be a bit old. Who Knows?? Still It is very sad. I hope it is an accident and not something that could have been avoided. Must be horrible for the family my heart goes out to them.

 

Phylo,

The Hawk T1/T1A is being replaced by the BAe Hawk T2. The T1/T1A (I think that it the 'A' might havesomething to do with weaponry) has been the stalwart of UK fast jet pilot training since the early/mid 70's.

Roxy

 

Oh yes - but that's not the same as saying that the Red Arrows' particular aircraft are their original 1980 items Their three flights a day, five days a week winter training schedule must really rack up the flying hours per airframe! The A has pylons for Sidewinders, and a centreline gunpod....the latter pod used by the Arrows for dispensing their coloured smoke.

 

The pilot has been named today as Red 5, Flight Lieutenant Sean Cunningham.

Rest in peace

 

The RAF have just announced that all aircraft with the M B Type 10 ejection seat have had flying suspended until safety clearance investigations have been conducted.Affects the Tornado and Tucano as well as the Hawk T1.

Just looking at the previous investigation into this seat was when cracking was discovered on a seat frame about 18 months ago at Valley.

Regarding the Meteor,it had its handling problems and caught out many a flying pupil and experienced pilots alike.

Back to the Hawk,it looks as if Brough will cease production as a result of the rendering down of the defence budgets.At the same time, I remember there was unofficial reports that it was expected that the Hawk would be built under licence in India....not a new business model but one the US has done with the F16.

 

Such sad news again.
RIP Flight Lieutenant Sean Cunningham

Lesley

 

Just saw this, terrible news indeed.

 

RIP Flight Lieutenant Sean Cunningham.

 

Tom, here's the nasty bit - the Hawks' M-B Mk10B ejector seat doesn't automatically jettison the canopy

We probably won't know specific details now until the Air Accidents Investigation Branch report is published...but if the pilot went through he canopy he at least got a major jolt/neck injury - and at this point we don't know if he was actually wearing his flight helmet...

The MB 10 version installed into the Hawk is designed to eject through the canopy. There is a sword on top of the seat and detonating cord incorporated in the canopy to aid penetration.

This seat has zero-zero capacity, so ejecting from ground level should not be a problem, provided the aviator is properly strapped in and wearing protective clothing. Also ejecting inside a structure like a shelter would not be a good idea,

Temporary grounding of that part of the fleet fitted with the same seat version is a strong indicator of materiel failure or maintenance error rather than operator error.

There are few good reasons for a ground ejection other than massive fires or high speed departures off the runway. None of these seems to have been present and combined with intel suggesting parachute was not deployed as intended, makes this quite puzzling. But I agree absolutely with other posters that the RAF IB is going to find what there is to find.

So sad to hear about this accident. My heartfelt condolensces.

 

Regarding the Meteor,it had its handling problems and caught out many a flying pupil and experienced pilots alike.


Sadly, emphasis on the many; I didn't realise how bad a problem it was until I read Hamilton-Paterson I knew about the assymetrical handling if an engine gave out, and its terrible fuel consumption that caught many out, but I didn't know about its tendency to go straight into a vertical and unrecoverable bunt if the pilot didn't remember to retract the airbrakes before lowering the undercarriage on approach...none of it helped by its immensely heavy controls in the days before power assist. Hamilton-Paterson spends some considerable time discussing Bill Waterson's testing role at Gloster, and the problems he had getting Gloster designers and management to do anything about its many and various problems while "...Meteors were dropping out of the sky all over the UK".

 

Flight Lieutenant Sean Cunningham.

 

Flight Lieutenant Sean Cunningham. R.I.P.

Tom

 

The MB 10 version installed into the Hawk is designed to eject through the canopy. There is a sword on top of the seat and detonating cord incorporated in the canopy to aid penetration.

This seat has zero-zero capacity, so ejecting from ground level should not be a problem, provided the aviator is properly strapped in and wearing protective clothing. Also ejecting inside a structure like a shelter would not be a good idea,

Temporary grounding of that part of the fleet fitted with the same seat version is a strong indicator of materiel failure or maintenance error rather than operator error.

There are few good reasons for a ground ejection other than massive fires or high speed departures off the runway. None of these seems to have been present and combined with intel suggesting parachute was not deployed as intended, makes this quite puzzling. But I agree absolutely with other posters that the RAF IB is going to find what there is to find.

So sad to hear about this accident. My heartfelt condolensces.


A sad sad subject but this goes further than the media is telling. yes the Tucano is grounded but it does not have the same MK 10 seat as a Hawk Mk 1 or Tornado GR4- the Tucano has a Mk 8 seat which is not zero zero capable the way the MK10 is. So the precautionary grounding goes beyond MK10 fleets.

TED

 

A sad sad subject but this goes further than the media is telling. yes the Tucano is grounded but it does not have the same MK 10 seat as a Hawk Mk 1 or Tornado GR4- the Tucano has a Mk 8 seat which is not zero zero capable the way the MK10 is. So the precautionary grounding goes beyond MK10 fleets.

TED

Different seat versions but probably a common component or sub-system.

 

Red Arrows fans have paid tribute to a pilot killed when he was ejected from his aircraft.
Flt Lt Sean Cunningham was ejected from a Hawk T1 while it was still on the ground at RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire on 8 November.
His death came less than three months after that of Flt Lt Jon Egging in a crash near Bournemouth Airport.
Enthusiasts gathered near RAF Waddington at the start of a convoy to RAF Scampton to lay flowers.


BBC News - Red Arrows fans pays tribute to pilot killed at base

 

The Red Arrows will evolve into a completely different kind of display team over the next decade, an aviation expert has predicted.
British production of the aerobatic team's Hawk T1 planes is being stopped and a replacement has yet to be named.
Leading industry magazine Jane's Defence Weekly said propellor-driven or even frontline planes like the Typhoon might be used.
It also predicted cuts in defence spending could affect the team.
In September, BAE Systems announced it would be ending production of the Hawk T1 at its factory in Brough, Yorkshire, over the next few years.


BBC News - Red Arrows facing 'major changes', says aviation expert

 

Either a propellor driven aircraft or a Typhoon. Doesn't leave much room for manoeuvre, this aviation expert.

Roxy

 

The MOD have stated that the plan is for the present Hawks to stay in service until 2018.

Replacements in the short term, according to the Jane's pundit, was put at a capital cost of £35-400 million.If we are to believe future intentions by Fox, through his leaked letters,the replacements are likely to be US sourced.