Re-enacting (sorry!) uniform advice~Battledress.

Discussion in 'The Lounge Bar' started by slaphead, Dec 17, 2009.

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  1. slaphead

    slaphead very occasional visitor

    Good morning.
    A couple of uniform questions for you.
    (1)
    The soldiers that came back from Dunkirk... They were wearing the 1937 pattern Battle Dress... When this was re designed to the 1940 pattern would that have handed in their old uniform and taken a new one, or considdering there was 300,000 men, would they have continued to wear the old style until it needed replacement?
    (2)
    In a few other posts I asked what people thought of me reenacting a BEF Highlander, most likely a Gordon since that was my dads regiment. Well I came across this 1939 Scottish O R Battle Dress jacket on ebay
    WW2 Scottish 1939 O.R. Battle Dress / Service Dress on eBay (end time 22-Dec-09 18:30:22 GMT)
    Its too big for me (I am 6 foot, 40 inch chest and 34 inch waist) so I was wondering if it is easy to take in or would I spend more doing that than trying to find a better fitted one that doesnt have the moth holes?

    Comments please!
     
  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Its too big for me (I am 6 foot, 40 inch chest and 34 inch waist) so I was wondering if it is easy to take in or would I spend more doing that than trying to find a better fitted one that doesnt have the moth holes?


    Slaphead

    In the interests of achieving accuracy in your re-enactment the fact that the uniform is "too big" for you makes it perfect, my uniforms were always too big for me :)

    With regard to:
    The soldiers that came back from Dunkirk... They were wearing the 1937 pattern Battle Dress... When this was re designed to the 1940 pattern would that have handed in their old uniform and taken a new one, or considdering there was 300,000 men, would they have continued to wear the old style until it needed replacement?


    This would have depended entirely on the unit to which they were finally re-allocated. The 300,000 men would have been broken down into much smaller groups and merged with existing UK garrison troops.
    I would almost certainly think that they would then be re-equipped with the latest uniform issue.
     
  3. slaphead

    slaphead very occasional visitor

    Hi Ron,

    Thanks for the info and the sizing tip :)

    I guess I was thinking about the two Gordon battalions that made it to Dinkirk and whether those men would have stayed in their units with their existing kit, but I take your point. Even with the recreation of the regiment the men in the battalions may well have been re equipped. Maybe I will have to add "Montys Highlanders" to my Christmas list. :rolleyes:

    Andy
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    two Gordon battalions that made it to Dinkirk

    Which 2 battalions were they?
    6th Bn were at Dunkirk,
    1st & 5th were lost at St Valery-en-Caux.

    edit, ah I see the 4th Bn were also at Dunkirk. Sorry.
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I would think the units diaries would be your best bet to identify when they were re-equipped.

    Andy
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    From War Diary of 2 Wilts who were evacuted from Dunkirk.

    2-6/6/1940 Rhyl England.
    Men re-clothed and refitted, waiting for instructions.

    7/6/1940 Rhyl England.
    Men re-clothed and refitted, waiting for instructions.
     
  7. slaphead

    slaphead very occasional visitor

    Thanks for all that. Looks like I am going to have to either limit myself to BEF or get two sets of kit after all :)

    Seems a terrible waste to ditch 300,000 uniforms just so the battalions are... umm.. well... uniform!

    Would the Gordons War Diary be at Kew or the Perth record office (if it still exists)
     
  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    There was a great deal of economy in wartime and the provision of uniforms was one such economy.For those commissioned would have to depend on the traditional military tailors for their best outfits.ORs were treated something different and were issued with uniforms according to the latest war regulations.

    For instance,I have seen a letter addressed to the next of kin of a Hampden crew member who served with No 144 Squadron.The squadron lost five aircraft in September 1939 and this particular airmen was lost on this raid.His mother asked for his "best blue" to be returned to her but the Squadron C.O replied, while he was able to return his personal effects,he could not return his best blue as because of war regulations economy (and off the cuff, I can't remember the number),her son had only one uniform which was his "best blue" and he was wearing it when he was lost.

    This airman was a regular and it would appear that the "working blue" previously issued had had to be handed back to stores in accordance with the latest war regulation.

    My "working blue" was a second hand one stamped WD 1940 carrying the "40 Shillings Tailors" tag.It would have been interesting to have been aware of its previous ownership history.It was demobbed with me because I was destined for the Reserve,a liability to the age of 45 years.

    Talking about uniforms,in 1938, it was said in the West Riding of Yorkshire,apart from other indicators of the likelihood of war,the woolen mills were given full order books by the government to manufacture uniforms, so much so that those in the industry knew something was afoot in the near future.
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    according to this the 1940 pattern was introduced in 1942.
    Battle Dress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The so called P40 or Pattern 1940 Battle Dress (also known as "austerity pattern") was introduced in 1942; it deleted the fly front, and the front buttons, as well as the pocket buttons, were now exposed.
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    extracts from the Osprey book on Battledress by Jewel & Chappell.
    I think you will be ok using the P37 as no major visable change occured until the P40 in 1942.

    Seems a terrible waste to ditch 300,000 uniforms just so the battalions are... umm.. well... uniform!
    Far from it, all types were worn in the same unit, there would be a mix of BD patterns.
     

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  11. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    Here is a note with regards clothing/boots in a
    routine order dated 30th April 1942

    Exchanges of Unserviceable Boots and Clothing.
    Personnel wishing to exchange unseriviceable Boots will
    do so today and personnel who handed in unseriveable
    Clothing for exchange will also draw replacements today.
    No further exchanges will be made until after the units
    move.

    What would have been the average life expectancy of
    a pair of boots and battle dress? Can one of the
    veterans on here tells us how many boots etc... they
    got through during their service?
     

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