Re-enacting good or bad?

Not that long ago, I was a bit taken aback to see a man in full SS uniform in my local Tesco. I assume he 'had just popped in for a pint of milk' his way home from a reenactment somewhere but he seemed quite proud of himself and had made no attempt to cover any of the insignia. It was a very strange sight.
Tom.

 

Not that long ago, I was a bit taken aback to see a man in full SS uniform in my local Tesco. I assume he 'had just popped in for a pint of milk' his way home from a reenactment somewhere but he seemed quite proud of himself and had made no attempt to cover any of the insignia. It was a very strange sight.
Tom.

We have been know to wander round M&S in viking kit selecting items for our banquets . we just have to remember to leave our weaponry behind, both blunts and sharps. not the done thing to be arrested in M&S for carrying weapons, especially as some of our members are either serving police officers or ex service guys. lol

 

On seeing this old thread resurrected, I was reminded of an old posting I made during the period when I was posting almost daily on the ww2f forum.

The original thread was here: An open letter to all re-enactors of Waffen SS units - World War II Forums and my opening piece read as follows:

On another thread on this forum, "Age to rank question", a newcomer tells his fellow members about his possible purchase of an SS uniform and his desire to make the uniform as authentic as possible.

I was sorely tempted to respond by asking the gentleman in question whether or not he would be willing to pay more for the uniform if there were visible blood stains?

If my attitude immediately comes across as being less than what could be regarded as welcoming, I would ask you to consider that I write as a "Vet" who has been posting on WW2 forums for many a year and as one who has recently ceased posting on another forum, because of his feelings towards a particular re-enactment group that venerates the 2nd Waffen SS Division, "famed" for it’s Oradour sur Glane atrocity.

For the benefit of newer members who may not know me, my well documented background shows I was the youngest of five brothers who served in WW2, one of whom was to lose his life in Bomber Command and my family tree shows quite a few gaps where cousins who were living in France in the ‘40s perished in the Holocaust.

I mention the above merely so that everyone will know exactly where I am coming from.

First of all, let me be quite clear, I claim no merit at all in being a "Vet", you simply have to have taken part in WW2 and still be alive, or indeed any dispensation for what may be considered my unpopular views, but I trust that what I have to say on the subject will at least be considered as fair comment and given a hearing.

My question to the SS re-enactors is as follows:

I would be extremely obliged if any re-enactor who go in for dressing up as a member of the SS would explain to me the nature of his "cause" and what benefits he feels he derives from the re-enactor unit activities.

Ron Goldstein

　

 

As an ex Knotter I know the joys of spending the weekend dressed up in period clothes, in fact after awhile you tend to forget what you are wearing. A classic example of this was after leaving an event a few of us all stopped at a garage for petrol the guy behind the counter looked the first of us in the queue up and down and asked Cavalier? to which he got the reply "No the Volvo".
Now I have no problem with WWII re-enactors although people I know who are Fallschirmjager re-enactors say they have met a few people from other groups who were neo nazis', the ones I can't understand are the more modern groups. I remember hearing at Kirby Hall about a guy dressed in a VoPo uniform who was decked by someone from Germany, now that could have been just a rumour. Talking of Kirby Hall I did enjoy the big battle after the public went home, nothing like seeing a knight riding a dutch WWII bike or the Royalist army and the South taking on Parliament and the North. Oh happy days.

 

Hello

What is VoPo?

 

Sorry should have used the correct name for the VoPos too much Le Carre and Len deighton I guess.

 

I don't hide the fact I run 53rd Welsh LHG, a group portraying 53rd Welsh Division. All of our guys range from 19-26 so we are good for age range. Most of our training focuses on the history and I found it useful for understanding an extra 10% of the veteran accounts. Indeed its how I met many of the veterans from the Division and has helped me explore far more avenues of research than I'd otherwise come across.

Equally...

I am not too keen on certain sorts of re-enactment, I'm not keen on the whole SS stuff - with Totenkopf being on the lowest level in my eyes. And I dislike the film portrayal that many re-enactors offer (expects to get shouted at on another forum for my comments here.)

Lots of infantry groups use Stens like they were issued over the No4 due to the cheap availablilty of Sten blankfirers. Some use Vickers guns in normal infantry squads. Some use FG42s, MP40s, Kar98s, MP008s, MG 42s, Panzerfausts and Panzershrecks. Indeed I had one group tell me that a PIAT wasn't a British infantry weapon as they'd never seen one before! Indeed some groups will not take feedback from veterans or even read original sources, leading to groups that look like something out of a dodgy action film.

So yeah, I enjoy my hobby, but dislike the ridiculous politics that go with it at times. And the lack of historical accuracy from many individuals.

Personally my favourite group are La Columna - Spanish Civil War Republican group, marvelous guys and fantastic impression.

 

One 'battle' I took part in was for a small display down in Portsmouth somewhere. Cast was Viking v Saxons. Our trusty leader was a man called Styrkar, a tall, stalwart of the group, the opposition included a great guy called Wulfstan who was of a rather shorter stature (my heght). Don't be misled though, he is an ex British judo champion, so was perfectly able to take care of himself.

Anyway, back to the action:
In the plot we, the vikings were supposed, after a suitable battle and much heroics, to win. However, on lining up the 'wedge' - one in front, others stacked up each side to add power and impact -Strykar yelled 'Line it up on the Dwarf!" (meaning Wulfstan). Needless to say the plot was abandoned and we were all 'slaughtered' to a man (and woman) lol

 

"Living History" is fine but for many I think it is just dressing up the history element is history with a "small h".
A mixture of good and bad the good do it very well and the bad do it rather less well.
I did see photos ( now removed) on the internet of some guys in who went to la cambe "in German uniform" which I thought was in bad taste , irresponsible and plain stupid.

 

There is a famous story of how one German group got a new member. He bought all the kit, went to shows, battled - the works. Then during their annual battlefield tour around France, they were sitting round a fire and one of them said, "Isn't it terrible how 60 years ago the real 'x' unit did that attrocity just a mile that way?"

Silence falls and the new chap looks really nervous. Glances around and says, "So we are the evil bad guys?"

For some reason he never thought that the SS were the bad guys, and spent the rest of the trip silently not speaking to anyone looking petrified of those around him the whole trip.

[How much of the above is true/embellished I'm not quite sure, but after hearing of an airsofter who had his nickname tatooed into his skin - his nickname was Snakebite and he had 'Snackbite' tatooed across his back - I have a new respect for the outstanding levels of stupidity that can pop up in this world!.]

 

Silence falls and the new chap looks really nervous. Glances around and says, "So we are the evil bad guys?"

Reminds me of the Mitchell and Webb sketch

YouTube - Mitchell & Webb Nazis

 

I remember reading on some US WW2 reenacting website a number of rules, and one of quite a number of them was that dressing up was limited to the reenacting location only, all activities including travel to and fro, however short the distance, were to be in normal clothes.

Apparently this is not a general rule.

 

I remember reading on some US WW2 reenacting website a number of rules, and one of quite a number of them was that dressing up was limited to the reenacting location only, all activities including travel to and fro, however short the distance, were to be in normal clothes.

Apparently this is not a general rule.

It wasn't in the Knot, the main rule was no cross dressing, that is no wearing kit and modern gear in public.

 

Police have raided the house of a re-enactor in Worcester and confiscated a large amount of weaponry:

From the Daily Mail (it was also in The Times, but it's impossible to post a link due to its website now being pay):
'His neighbours knew he enjoyed taking part in battle re-enactments.
But they had no idea Graham Lane kept enough weapons in his modest home to start a real war.
Police raided the semi-detached property on a quiet residential estate and left with an arsenal including missiles, grenades, rocket launchers, shells - and even a cannon.'


Read more: Guns, rocket launchers and missiles seized by police in Worcester house raid | Mail Online

 

Poor guy - if he is to be believed it was all legally held.

 

not my piece of cake, don't like it all, at arnhem is getting out of hand, and I know a a number of vets who don't like it at all, spcialy when they walked fully dressed around on the Cemetery, no respect at all for those who fought and were killed at Arnhem if you do this, and I am 100% behind them.

Philip,

I agree with your sentiments. My only time doing a Market Garden Tour, and there were so many of them. And the crap they do at Oosterbeek on the memorial day is disgusting!

 

Police have raided the house of a re-enactor in Worcester and confiscated a large amount of weaponry:

From the Daily Mail (it was also in The Times, but it's impossible to post a link due to its website now being pay):
'His neighbours knew he enjoyed taking part in battle re-enactments.
But they had no idea Graham Lane kept enough weapons in his modest home to start a real war.
Police raided the semi-detached property on a quiet residential estate and left with an arsenal including missiles, grenades, rocket launchers, shells - and even a cannon.'


Read more: Guns, rocket launchers and missiles seized by police in Worcester house raid | Mail Online

I bet the intelligence they got was from a neighbour. What are the odds the police have to return the lot as they are all perfectly legal?

 

And the crap they do at Oosterbeek on the memorial day is disgusting!

Can you put me in the picture, if you please?

Hard to go ideological with this kind of reenacting