RASC troop carrying in 1944 Armd Divs

That is getting closer to my understanding. I've attached the pdf file which I found on the BritishMilitaryHistory website. I am still struggling a bit with the terminology as I am not a military expert. Your source refers to 645 as an "Army Troops Composite Company" which is what the CWGC refer to. The document I found doesn't seem to use that name in the description of 1944-45 RASC Company Establishment. - and the nearest I found was "Armoured Division Troops Company" which appears to include (p9), in addition to an HQ Unit, 2 Transport Platoons with 5 sections of 6 x 3 ton lorries, 2 Transport Platoons with 5 sections of 6 x 3 troop carrying lorries, 1 Composite Platoon with only A&B increments,1 general duties platoon, 2 relief driver increments and 1 Workshop Platoon. The description of their role is
"Transport for the carriage of 2nd line scales of ammunition, petrol and anti-gas reserves, and of supplies on single echelon on unit basis for units of armoured divisional troops, and transport for the carriage of the marching personnel of three infantry battalions of the infantry brigade."
Both the composition of the Company and the description are quite close to what you have - but not identical. Is an "Armoured Division Troops Company" something entirely different to an "Army Troops Composite Company" or are these names for exactly the same thing? What does "single echelon" mean in the definitions? At least you have found a source which actually mentions 645 Company. Another source shows they were at D-Day. Have you even seen an online war diary for them which might help me track his route from D-Day to when he died?

 

Yes, two different things. The piece you've posted is a precis of the late war organisation of RASC Companies that were allotted to certain types of Divisions and Brigades. The War Establishment (WE) for the Headquarters of a Commander, RASC, included the outline org for over 20 types of RASC Company, which could operate in support of Corps and Armies as well as Divisions and Brigades. The two RASC Army Troops Composite Companies were very different from the Armoured Division Troops Companies as described in the piece.

Echelon is one of those terms that tends to mean different things to different arms of service. The 1940 Field Service Pocket Book describes "double echelon" as referring to the operation of a Supply Column, which were part of the RASC org in the earlier years of the war. The WE for a Divisional Supply Column of 1938 shows two Echelons, I and II, each carrying one day's worth of supplies (less fuel and ammunition, which had their own Companies) for all units of their parent Division. Each Echelon would operate on alternate days, when they would carry supplies from the railhead to delivery points. I've been trying to find a similar contemporary description for "single echelon on a unit basis" without success - a better understanding of RASC operation is on my to-do list, but it has a lot of competition...

I think my basic understanding is that single echelon underscored the fact that the reorganisation of RASC units, effected in 1941, was to ensure that all transport was to be used to the best degree and no vehicles were left idle.

There are war diaries for what I presume to be 645 Company, RASC at Kew, but not scanned and online as far as I know (very few British documents are). I can't see another 645 Company, RASC in the OOB for 21 Army Group: the Armoured Divisional Troops Companies that caught your eye were 58, 173 and 535 and 109 (Special), and the Armoured Divisional Transport Companies were 90, 287, 648 and 649. As mentioned, the Army Troops Composite Companies, RASC, were 318 and 645. Below are the National Archives refs for what I think (hope) would be the unit you are after.

645 Coy. | The National Archives

645 Coy. | The National Archives

I don't know if any of the members here already have copies and would be able to check? It's always sad to think personnel continued to die due to accidents and the unspeakable amount of explosive ordnance that had to be cleared well after VE-Day had come and gone. I would expect there to be more than a passing mention in the unit diary.

Gary

 

Thank you very much - it is good that you have clarified that the CWGC is correct in its description of his unit. You have also given me enough for a brief description of his role. I live too far away to visit the National Archives. Most of the men who are buried at Overloon come from Regiments where I can find war diaries online - but there are a few, like this man, who died in less usual times and circumstances to most of those buried there which are much more difficult. I am in touch with his niece who today was able to tell me how he died - it wasn't anything out of the ordinary - but she does not want me to publish it - and we always respect that. She told me he was a motorcycle messenger. If anyone on here has ever looked at or transcribed the war diaries for this unit, please let me know as I am still interested in a brief summary of his route from DDay to when he died. However, I now have enough for a first version of his story for publication. Unfortunately his niece has no photo and has checked with her cousins. His 2 daughters emigrated to the USA and so far, two possible living relatives of them have not responded to messages. I will try them again once his story is published on the Overloon War Chronicles Website. Thanks again for your help.

 

No sooner had I replied to you when a different niece of his sent me a photo of him! It will eventually be posted on the OWC website - with an acknowledgement of your help.

 

Hi Elaine,

I've transcribed the war diary of 645 Army Troops Composite Company RASC for 1944 and can confirm Gary's absolutely spot on with the unit's title and function. I'd be happy to post the diary up in the RASC section over the next couple of days if that would be of interest.

Regards

Tom

 

That would be brilliant - thank you very much.

 

Hello Tom,
I would be very interested in this transcription.
I believe that my father was in this unit from 29 November 1943.
It is believed to have left UK on 8 June 1944 for North West Europe and may have arrived at Juno Beach about 10th June 1944.
On 25th October 1945 he was transferred to 725 Company Composite Coy when 645 Coy Composite was disbanded.
Kind Regards
Leonard

 

Hi Elaine and Leonard,

No problem. I'll start this evening. I think I've got from Jan - Dec 44 but I haven't looked at the document for quite a few years so it might be slightly less than that.

Regards

Tom

 

Hi Tom, I have just realised today that you posted the war diary very quickly after your last post. Thank you very much indeed for that. It has enabled me to add the details of what the unit was doing in the run up to D-Day and where they were based during 1944. I know I am pushing my luck - but I don't suppose you have looked at he equivalent diary for 1945 so I could get an idea of where they were located in that period? If not, it is OK as I have enough to complete and publish a biography of AW Taylor on the Overloon War Chronicles website. I will post a link on here when it is published. Thank you and everyone else on here for your help.

 

My Grandfather L/Cpl John Henry STRANGE T/6918840 was in 507Coy 7th Armoured Div. I have his service records but i'm having issues finding his Unit War Diaries. I can see a generalised picture of his War north Africa/Tunisia/Italy/ D Day and beyond.. but would like to get a more detailed view . Can anyone help with directing me to War Diaries for his unit?
Thanks
Andy S

 

I also have a number of wartime snapshots i can make available. Some from N. Africa, Italy and Northern Germany.