Any help or confirmation of the abbreviations (in bold) below would be appreciated. They are all taken from the diary of the 1503 Arty Platoon RASC between 01 07 43 and 01 07 44 while servicing mostly 70th Medium Regiment RA. The unit starts in Lybia, moves to Sicily then work up the east side of Italy. My assumptions in bold italics. O.C visited 501 A.O.D and arranged for return of some doubtful amm, also the drawing of amm to make up 1st line deficiencies of regiment. O.C visited S&T rear 30 Corps and No 5 C.C.S admitted to 76 M.D.S. Mobile dressing station? 11.45 Visited 54 F.M.C re rations and P.O.L, authority from C.R.A required before rations for this unit can be obtained. 11.00 Visited regiment re further dumping of amm tonight. 14.00 15x3 tonners left for 4 F.A.S to load amm and then proceed under regimental arrangements to gun sites. Forward Ammunition ...?? 30 Corps S & T. (S&T appears quite a lot) O.C visited D.A.D.O.S H.Q. 8th Army re M.T spares. 09.00 O.C. visited D.D.S.T 5 Corps re vehicle situation. (Sometimes S&T) 10.30 O.C Visited R.H.Q and "B" Echelon of regiment. 12.00 Demand received for 800 rds 4.5" to be delivered to Bty W/lines and 1200 galls M.T.80 to be delivered to "B" Echelon O.C. visited D.A.D.T 5 Corps with a report called for by War Office on the Platoons activities and experiences since arriving in North Africa until 31 Dec 45. 5x3 tonners reported to 19 M.P.F.C Termoli for salvage duties. Mobile Petrol Filling Company. Warm and dry. 06.30 9x3 tonners left for 54 B.C.D San Severo to load beer and deliver to 27 B.I.S Campobasso. 1 O.R T.O.S from 2 C.R.U. (BR) 13.30 F.F.I inspection for remainder of unit also anti-Typhus innoc. The diaries usually say that the ammunition was delievered to Regt or Regiment but occasionaly it mentions that they have gone direct to gun pits. Does this mean that the regiment would have a small holding area and make the final distribution of shells to guns itself. If that was usually the case would the occasional note in a RASC diary about going direct to the guns be indicating a possible period of exceptionally heavy expenditure? Most of the ammunition being handled is referred to as ‘4.5” shell complete’ although in places its refers just to 4.5" shell. I assume this is a shell with attached (brass) case with propellant and fuses? However, would fuses be boxed separately and fitted by an ordnance expert in the immediate vicinity of the guns just prior to firing? Can someone confirm? There are also a very few references as below, what are 35% 1st charges? 14.00 4x3 tonners left for Regt with 390 rds 4.5" plus 35% 1st charges.
Can I do the easy ones. AOD. Advanced Ordnance Depot. S&T. Supply and Transport. The staff side of the RASC. MDS. Main Dressing Station. As opposed to Forward Dressing Station. FMC. Forward Maintenance Centre DADOS. Deputy Assistant Director of Ordnance Services. DDST. Deputy Director, Supply and Transport. 'B' Echelon. Usually the supply and administrative transport of a unit. W/Lines. Battery Wagon Lines. The vehicle park. CRU. Corps Reinforcement Unit. 4.5" shells did not come as a complete unit with brass cartridge case. The shell and charge were separate. The charge was in a bag and could be varied by adding or subtracting units. Mike
Having looked it up: Charge 1 was a light charge for short range or high angle firing. Lobbing a shell over obstacles or to land behind defences etc. Charge 2 was a heavier charge. Charge 3 could be added to Charge 2 for even longer range. I would guess that Charge 1 was useful in the mountainous country of Italy. Mike
suspect FFI = Free From Infection which may mean be a code for the infamous short arm inspection for any symptoms of VD!
Thanks for all the replies, reading through the diary entries will be a lot more fluid now! I hadn't realised the 4.5" gun used bagged charges which must have posed all sorts of handling issues re fire risk and moisture. Presumably when the diary says shell complete it means the shells were accompanied by charges which I presume were well packed in metal containers?. Any thought as to why there are a few entries mentioning charges specifically. Could 35% 1st charges simply be a way of recording that that delivery was defficient in charges relative to shells on that day when that was not normally the case? Excuse my lack of detail knowledge here although I am going back to this site again for more background info! http://nigelef.tripod.com/maindoc.htm I have copied about 6 months worth of the 70th Med Regt diary for Jan - June 44 so I may be back at some point for help interpreting that! Quick one for Sheldrake. Whats a 'short arm inspection'? or should I not ask!
The 4.5 in Gun had a Screw breech so was not able to use a Cartridge case. The bag charges, if I remember correctly from my 5.5 in days, came as Charge 3 with the bags for Charge 2 and 3 attached to the Charge 1 bag with flimsy tape that could easily be torn away dependent on the Charge required. They were transported in a thick cardboard tube. The shell was not boxed or fused, just had a plug in the "fuse" end , and a canvas and rope protector over the driving band. Unlike cartridge cases that had a primer in the base to ignite the charge, a balastite cartridge was put into the breech lock to ignite the charge. I cannot see any reason why charges would be broken down to Charge1 before shipping out to the Guns. It would have meant breaking open the packaging, removing bags 2 and 3 , repackaging, and then having to dispose of the bags
I suspect the WD may have ordered a proportion of 4.5" ammunition with charge one only is to minimize waste. The 4.5" gun was one of the longer ranged pieces in the British gun park@ 20,500 yds . It was developed in parallel with the 5.5" gun but had a few thousand yards extra range over the 5.5".and tended to be used for engaging counter battery targets in the depth of the enemy positions. E.g. it is the 4.5" batteries which provided the first support to 1st AB Division at Oosterbeek from near Nijmengen. .When engaging targets at ranges over 15,000 yds charge III would be needed - i.e. all three charge bags would be used. If the guns were being used to engage targets within 15,000 yds the target could be still engaged with charge III but greater accuracy would be achieved with charge.II and below 11,100yds with charge one. The lower velocity MV would mean a higher trajectory and the shell could be lobbed over an intervening crest, e.g. in a valley behind a ridge in Italy. The other benefits of using a lower charge was less wear on the gun barrel, which had a limited life. When firing at the lower charges the increments making the higher charge would be thrown away or burned. Picture the process. The three charge increments for each round have been manufactured by some munitions workers from materials imported across uboat infested waters, then shipped half way around the world across more U boat infested waters and transported with care by the RASC to a gun position so ..... they can be thrown away. Guns in action at the front would usually need to have all three charges available to have the option to engage targets to their full range. There were at least two circumstances when it would have been tactically safe to have ordered charge one only. 1) For training purposes. 2) For a specific fire-plan where the targets were within the range of charge one. Post war British artillery such as the L118 Light gun and FH70 came with a standard cartridge with increments allowing for engagement of targets within C 75% of maximum range with the last increment ordered and a smaller proportion of a single charge super or a supercharge increment This is a hypothesis. The answer will be somewhere in RA Notes.for the war years.
The 4.5" for some reason used different charges to the 5.5". Charge 2 was the standard charge. Charge 3 was the incremental charge which was attached to Charge 2 with tapes for greater range. This would come as standard one per shell. Charge 1 was a different charge altogether. It was a light charge on a 'potato masher' like stick. This stick was to position the charge correctly in the breech. Charge 1 was presumably ordered and delivered separately. Not much used in some theatres since the point of the 4.5" was to fire at long range, but it was much used in Italy for lobbing shells over hilly ridges. Mike Oops. I have overlapped with Sheldrake. All he says is correct for the 5.5" but not the 4.5". I have pictures somewhere. I will see if I can find them.
The 4.5" is before my time and I don't have the range tables to hand. I took the figures from Nigel Evan's site http://nigelef.tripod.com/45inchsheet.htm I am sure you are right as the whole purpose of the 4.5" was to have a gun with a range of 20,000. It may have never been envisaged that anything less than "Charge 2" would be needed operationally, until Italy . .
That was very interesting Trux, I didnt know that about 4.5 Ammunition system.That would explain the query from Hutt
I hope I have attached information re. 4.5" ammunition. This is from Ian V Hoggs work. He was an expert on British Artillery and himself served on 5.5" guns. Mike Ammunition supply. Each gun tractor carried ammunition. 40 rounds each gun for the 5.5". possibly more for the 4.5". Each battery had ammunition lorries each carrying 80 rounds. These replenished the tractors or gun sites and then went back to an ammunition point where they in turn were replenished from the RASC platoon. When a prolonged fire programme was planned ammunition was carried by the RASC to the guns so that the tractors and 1st line lorries remained full.
In my time (long postwar), BIS was a Bulk Issue Store (normally for food and drink rather than anything more warlike). Chris
Thanks for the later posts which have given me a much better insight into this aspect of artillery. If Trux did have some pictures of these charges it would be interesting. The comments about counter battery fire are interesting as there are a lot of references to 'Bombards on HBs' in the 70th Meds diary. If I get the time at some point I will try and find the Battery diaries and see if its possible to find both their location and targets and see what it looks like with Google Earth with terrain turned on. Short arm inspection....yes, I checked in a dictionary of millitary slang. Nuff said!!
Trux / Mike Apologies but I missed that. Its downloaded now and I've got quite a bit to go on to get my head around how these guns and the RASC / RA regiment operated. Graham
hutt, I attempt to illustrate the complexity and sophistication of the Artillery Platoon RASC. I hasten to add that the word attempt casts doubt on my ability rather than the readers. Corps had artillery companies RASC attached. These consisted of a variable number of platoons, each supplying a non divisional artillery regiment. At this period non divisional artillery was administered by Army Groups Royal Artillery and units were attached to Corps as required. Each such unit took its own supply platoon with it. Although the main task of the platoon was the carriage of ammunition it did also carry other supplies for the artillery regiment. The RASC platoons came under the control of the CCRASC (Corps Commander RASC) and although their primary task was to supply ‘its’ regiment it could be diverted to other tasks. Artillery Platoon (Medium) Transport for the carriage of 2nd line scales of ammunition, petrol and anti gas reserves, and of supplies on double echelon for a medium regiment RA. Transport is also available for the commodity lift from the Line of Communication terminal to the regiment. (Roughly translated it carries things from the Corps depots to the regiment using two groups which deliver on alternate days). 1 X Transport Platoon with two sections of 6 ton lorries and three sections of 3ton lorries 1 X Composite Platoon with A section 1 X Relief Driver Platoon Transport Platoon RASC War Establishment II/263/3 This platoon is domestically self contained. It can be attached to a company but can equally operate independently. It is designed to operate 30 task vehicles, which may be of any type and capacity to suit the role allotted to the platoon concerned. The normal equipment of the transport platoon will be the lorry, 3ton 4 X 4 GS, on which basis the transport platoon can lift 90 tons of general stores. Personnel Subaltern serjeant 6 X corporal 7 X lance corporal 41 X driver IC private Total 59 Plus attached 2 X cook ACC Trade fitter 5 X driver mechanic administrative corporal 5 X corporal in charge of sections batman driver clerk 29 X driver of vehicle 3 X lmg gunner 2 X motorcyclist 8 X spare driver water dutyman One NCO and two men will be trained in anti gas duties and decontamination work. One additional man will be trained in water duties. Transport 8 X motorcycle 2 X 15cwt GS 34 X 3ton 4 X 4 lorry 1 X water trailer 180 gallon Note: Relief vehicles represent 10% of the task vehicles in the platoon. They are provided to replace task vehicles undergoing service and maintenance in order to maintain the desired load carrying capacity of the platoon. Relief vehicles will not to be regarded as reserves for the permanent replacement of casualties and will not be used to provide additional capacity, except in operational emergency. Weapons 7 X Bren lmg 2 X PIAT Notes: One truck 15cwt, water and one driver IC may be substituted for the trailer water 180 gallons. Organisation Headquarters Motorcycle 1 serjeant Motorcycle 2 motorcyclist Motorcycle 3 motorcyclist 15cwt GS 1 Subaltern, administrative corporal, clerk, batman driver 15cwt GS 2 lance corporal, lmg gunner, driver IC Carries Bren gun and PIAT Fitted with a Motley mount at the rear 3ton 4 X 4 GS 1 driver IC Relief vehicle 3ton 4 X 4 GS 2 driver IC Relief vehicle 3ton 4 X 4 GS 3 driver IC Relief vehicle 3ton 4 X 4 GS 14 2 X cook, water dutyman, driver IC Tows water trailer Section 1 to 5 each Motorcycle corporal 3 ton 4 X 4 GS 1 driver mechanic 3 ton 4 X 4 GS 2 driver IC 3 ton 4 X 4 GS 3 driver IC 3 ton 4 X 4 GS 4 driver IC 3 ton 4 X 4 GS 5 driver IC 3 ton 4 X 4 GS 6 driver IC Composite Platoon RASC War Establishment II/266/3 This platoon comprises personnel for ammunition, petrol or supply duties. One or more sections are allocated to a mechanical transport company allotted to the carriage of these three commodities. Each section is designed to provide the necessary personnel for the accounting and issuing of petrol and supplies and for the keeping of ammunition records. Loaders will be provided from the relief driver increment.. A Section Provides supply, petrol and ammunition services for an independent unit of the nature and size of a Regiment RA. Captain corporal clerk clerk butcher lance corporal storeman batman driver driver IC 3 X motorcyclist 2 X issuer 3 X motorcycle 1 X 15cwt GS 1 X 3ton 4 X 2 GS Note: The butcher will be deleted when the section is provided for petrol duties only. Relief Driver Increment RASC War Establishment II/267/1 Provides personnel for relieving drivers and for loading and unloading. serjeant lance corporal driver IC 29 X drivers IC The transport of ammunition. - Supplies of ammunition were delivered to the ammunition refilling point by corps transport where it was held on wheels until collected by the unit transport as required. The corps RASC held a reserve. - Forward of the refilling point was a holding point where the second line transport held a reserve on wheels. Second line vehicles ran a shuttle service from the holding point to unit supply points where ammunition was always available. - On return journeys lorries should carry salvage in the form of empty ammunition boxes and cases, packing tubes, and shells that have been unpacked but not used. This latter made it necessary for lorries returning to the divisional filling point to be diverted to a salvage depot where returned ammunition could be handled by RAOC personnel. - A General Duties platoon was available to assist with loading and unloading ammunition. - It was a principle of ammunition supply that it should move forward automatically and need not be indented for. Clerks were required to record amounts issued, and units made returns of ammunition expenditure, so that replacement stocks could be provided. - At times of heavy artillery ammunition expenditure divisional lorries could deliver direct to gun lines and dump ammunition on the ground. The system was sufficiently flexible to cope with rapid movements. When units advanced many miles a day the supply system was able to maintain a steady flow. - by units transport carrying a reserve, - by the RASC platoon reserve on wheels moving just behind the units, - by the shuttle of RASC lorries keeping the rolling reserve replenished, - by the corps reserve on wheels following on behind - and so on as far as necessary The system ensured a supply of ammunition and the platoons maintained their two day turnaround with the refilling point and deliver point moving forward each day. Mike
