RAOC, REME, KOSB, Cameronians Photo's

Discussion in 'REME/RAOC' started by Bloxwich, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. Bloxwich

    Bloxwich Junior Member

    I am new to the forum. What a great source of interesting information. I have posted some photographs. The connection between the photo's is my Grandfather, 7632902, Private (acting L/Cpl) Cyril Watson Day. He was in the RAOC from 17/6/40 until he transferred to REME on 1/10/42. He was demobbed on 6/3/46. I have recently applied to MOD for his service record. Currently I have his short service record, service book and demob papers and one or two other bits and pieces. Anecdotal family knowledge suggests he was attached to the KOSB's and certainly some of the photo's show a Scottish link. I also have a letter dated March 1945 from an inhabitant of the Belgian village of Pellenberg, Nr Leuven, which suggests he visited or was even billeted there.

    Of the photos posted I don't know too much, so any comments or information would be welcome. This is what I do know and my comments;
    1) Maybe France or training in UK pre BEF? Not sure of significance of white brassard's.
    2) Captioned '2nd December 1945 Buer Germany 23 group' but I think this is a mistake and could be referring to one of the other photo's. I think it is pre-BEF. The cap badges are RAOC and judging by the bed-pack in the background they may be training.
    3) My Grandfather was a vehicle mechanic and I would like to know what that piece of machinery might be.
    4) Can just make out the sea in the background.
    5) ?
    6) Captioned 'August 5th 1940'. Seems correct as he has just the first two ribbons up. The cap badges appear to be different so is this a course of some kind?
    7) Can be dated to early-mid 1941. Can anyone tell me what the arm patches might mean?
    8) Caption is Dorfbucherei Laggenbeck. Not sure why in this picture he is the only one wearing a possibly black beret?
     

    Attached Files:

    RosyRedd likes this.
  2. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Hi and welcome to the forum, in the last picture he would have been wearing a beret because he was RAOC/REME, which brings us to picture 6 - as he is wearing a 'Scots' cap and badge he must have been part of that regiment at some time, rather than attached from RAOC/REME.
    Can you post what service history you have, we would be able to help more if we have some background context to go with the photo's.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I see he wearing the triangle insignia of 3rd Infantry Divsion.
    [​IMG]

    As you say he KOSB that'd be 1st Bn KOSB.

    I think the armbands in the earlier photo are gas detector brassards, they werent white, I think that is the light shining on them making them appear lighter.

    If he joined up on the date you say then he couldnt have been in the BEF.
    That date is too late.
    He was in the RAOC from 17/6/40

    photo3 shows a CMP cabbed lorry.
     
  4. Bloxwich

    Bloxwich Junior Member

    Attached is the brief Record of Service I have for my Grandfather. As this shows, I don't think he ever was actually part of KOSB but the anecdotal evidence is that he was associated with a Scottish regiment in some way. He has been dead a long time but I remember him saying how he paraded with a Scottish regiment and they tried to make him wear a kilt, but he refused. I was too young to know if this was a wind-up or not.

    I have also received a better image of what was printed on the back of the photo of the chaps in the woodland (one holding an axe) and this enables me to correct its location. It has an ink stamp with 'Dorfbucherei Laggenbeck', which means 'Laggenbeck Village Library'. I can't explain why this has been stamped on the back of this photo, but Laggenbeck is located about 10km West of Osnabruck.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    His service number is RAOC, so can't imagine what the KOSB link is. As I've said if he was only attached to KOSB he wouldn't be wearing KOSB cap and badge, perhaps he was in the Army with the KOSB pre or post war?
    His full service record should clear up the matter.
     
  6. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    On the 6th Photo I think they are Cameronians as there looks to be a couple of NCO's with black chevrons.

    Also in reply to the last poster attached personnel sometimes seem to have worn the Regimental badge even though they shouldnt - I think there are pictures of some personnel attached to the Parachute regiment (including catering corps from memory) wearing the Parachute Regiment badge - I guess if you were attached to a unit for a long period you would feel part of it.

    On Owens comment about gas brassards a few of them dont seem to wrap round the arm enough - they look to have a narrow strap round the bottom - it should be thicker.

    Alistair
     
  7. LCplCombat

    LCplCombat Member

    Also in reply to the last poster attached personnel sometimes seem to have worn the Regimental badge even though they shouldnt - I think there are pictures of some personnel attached to the Parachute regiment (including catering corps from memory) wearing the Parachute Regiment badge - I guess if you were attached to a unit for a long period you would feel part of it.


    Alistair

    Certainly confirm this stating an RAOC soldier doing it. Pte Ted Mordecai of 1st Airborne Division Ordnance Field Park RAOC is shown in Frank Steers book "Arnhem: The Fight To Sustain" wearing a parachute regiment cap badge.
     
  8. bigmal

    bigmal Member

    The machinery in photo #3 is a CMP truck with No13 cab, from the wheel I would say a 15cwt.


    Malc
     
  9. ex-boy

    ex-boy Member

    On the 6th Photo I think they are Cameronians as there looks to be a couple of NCO's with black chevrons.

    Also in reply to the last poster attached personnel sometimes seem to have worn the Regimental badge even though they shouldnt - I think there are pictures of some personnel attached to the Parachute regiment (including catering corps from memory) wearing the Parachute Regiment badge - I guess if you were attached to a unit for a long period you would feel part of it.

    On Owens comment about gas brassards a few of them dont seem to wrap round the arm enough - they look to have a narrow strap round the bottom - it should be thicker.

    Alistair

    I'm no cap badge expert but they don't look the right shape for KOSB and I would be happy to go with Cameronians.

    Steve Gray.
     
  10. Bloxwich

    Bloxwich Junior Member

    There are some arm badges visible on one of the chaps in pic 8. Does that help?
    Is the triangle 3rd Infantry?
     
  11. Bloxwich

    Bloxwich Junior Member

    Some of the photo's seem to have disappeared from this post.....
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Yes , sorry we lost a lot of images when we moved to the new forum software.
    Apologies for that.
     
  13. Bloxwich

    Bloxwich Junior Member

    Hello All,

    I am revisiting this posting from about a year ago to re-post some images that subsequently seem to have disappeared and to re-request help or just plain opinion.
    I also have a conundrum about my Grandfather's REME WWII service because although I know some things for certain, other things seem to be contradictory.

    What I have is; soldiers pay book, short record of service card and soldiers release book plus medals, some letters etc. I am still awaiting detailed service history from MOD (the first application went missing somewhere along the line). but this is what I know for sure;

    Service;

    Regt/Corps From To
    RAOC 17/6/40 30/9/42
    REME 1/10/42 6/3/46

    Release Leave Certificate;
    Place; BAOR
    Stamp; 6th Lanarkshire Bn, The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), Orderly Room, 18/12/45
    Stamp; Military Dispersal Unit No 8, Hereford, 22/12/45

    So, that all sounds good.

    But, despite certainly being in REME for the duration, he was attached to a Scottish regiment. In some the photographs he is actually wearing a Scottish regimental cap and I remember him once saying he once took part in a large parade with his Scottish regiment and they attempted to (unsuccessfully) make him wear a kilt (he was from the English Midlands). The question is whether the regiment in question was the Cameronians or the KOSB's (or possibly both?).

    In essence these are the bits of seemingly contradictory information I have supporting these views;

    1) There is very strong family knowledge that he was attached to the KOSB’s. No-one in the family recalls any mention of the Cameronians. There is also strong anecdotal belief that he went in on D-Day itself.

    2) The two mean on the left end of the Laggenbeck photo (ie the man with the axe) appear to have the 3rd inf div triangle and the KOSB shoulder square. Note that his chevron is not black as I believe the Cameronians wore. Also in this photo my Grandfather is wearing a normal black beret, unlike the others.

    3) In one of the photo’s (holding the baby) my Grandfather seems to be wearing the 3rd Inf. Div badge.

    4) In his pay book I found a field postcard he sent to my Grandmother dated 7/6/44. Interestingly the address is written as a full address including 'England'. This to me suggests it was possibly from Normandy.

    So, all that seems to suggest KOSB's, but,

    5) The release book stamp suggests 6th Lanarkshire Bn The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles).

    6) In the formal group photo some of the cap badges seem more likely to be Cameronians and the NCO’s have black chevrons. However my Grandfathers cap badge is not clearly visible and his chevron is not black, presumably because he was in REME and only attached to the Scottish regiment, so this proves nothing. On the reverse of this photo is stamped and written "Foto-Elisabeth, Buer, Hagenstr 28, Ruf 81509. 2nd Dec 1945, Buer, Germany, 23 Group". I don't know what '23 Group' refers to.

    I also know for certain (from a personal letter) that at some point before March 1945 he stayed for a period long enough to become friendly (possibly billeted) with locals at Pellenberg, Leuven, Belgium.

    So, there seems to be evidence for both cases and it's a bit of a detective case I am afraid. But, if there is anyone out there who can offer an opinion on this or validate or contradict the observations I have made I would be most interested to hear it!

    I am hoping to apply to the REME archivist for more information once I have his full service record from MOD. That might be 6 or 9 months wait though.

    Thanks,
    Dave.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Bloxwich

    Bloxwich Junior Member

    Note. The Group photo is entitled with 'August 5th 1940'. That is a mistake on my behalf and I named it incorrectly. This is the photo with Buer, Hagenstr 28, Ruf 81509. 2nd Dec 1945, Buer, Germany, 23 Group". on the reverse.

    D.
     
  15. jmcq

    jmcq Junior Member

    I may be wrong but I don't think the KOSB or the Cameronians wear/wore the kilt except for the pipe bands, they normally wear/wore trews as No 2s, so there was a bit of a wind up there unless they were suggesting he paraded with the pipe band. ! :D
     
  16. Bloxwich

    Bloxwich Junior Member

    jmcq - thanks! Entirely possible it was a wind-up, either by his colleagues winding-him up or him winding me up, or both!!

    He died when I was 10 and I have few direct memories of him talking about his wartime service. However, the kilt story and that parade was one of the ones I do recall. He told me it was a very large parade in Germany to celebrate victory at the end of the war which involved a long march-past in front of some dignitaries. I also remember him saying that in those days they had detachable shirt collars and early-on in the parade the collar stud fell out of the back of his collar and went down his boot, causing him considerable discomfort for the rest of the march. He showed me the offending collar stud and I still have it.
     
  17. jmcq

    jmcq Junior Member

    Its great those memories of little things which bring a smile. I can imagine him limping along cursing collar studs and laughing about it over a beer after.
     

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