RAC Depot Poona

I am trying to find more information about my father’s service at the RAC Depot Poona from 16 Sep 42 until 15 Feb 43. (7889785 James Coubrough RTR). I would like to know what the Depot was, where exactly it was located and what did he do there.

I am waiting to get his service records, however, in a 1985 letter from the MOD at my request, they advised he was “Posted to RAC Depot - Poona 16 Sep 42”.
His RAC Tracer card provided to me from the Bovington Tank Museum Library, says “Base Depot India 16 Sep 42” and “(2nd Bn RTR Depot RAC India 4/42)”.

He was with 2 RTR during the retreat from Burma and with them in Dhond, India for the four months from 21 May 42 until posted to RAC Depot Poona 16 Sep 42. So, the posting to RAC Depot Poona for the four months before he went into hospital later on, seems a long time to be at a depot, but it may have been due to a reinforcement holding requirement or he could have been on the staff.

I have found the following information about Poona from a variety of sources including threads on this site as follows:

“Actually the "Depot" for most RAC purposes was to keep a supply of spare bodies on hand for reinforcements and training - taking newly arrived personnel from the transit camps when they landed in the country - or retreads from hospital - leave etc.” WW2Talk Internet Forum

“There is no accurate evidence for Poona’s role. The main centre for armour, the sort of Indian Bovington, had always been Ahmednagar so it may be that Poona handled personnel. That is not clear from what we have here.” David Fletcher – Librarian Tank Museum letter June 27 1995

“The RAC Depot in India was at Ahmednagar (currently a Tank Museum) which is 120km from Poona and some individuals of 7 Armd Bde remained there as instructors.” WW2Talk Internet Forum

“Tracer card has 28.12.43 and RAC Depot India written by the side.” WW2Talk Internet Forum

“In addition, there was the Royal Armoured Corps Depot at Poona (Pune).” WW2Talk Internet Forum

“and is posted to Royal Armoured Corps Depot at Poona in December 1943. He was posted to a RAC training unit in April 1944” WW2Talk Internet Forum

“On 8 August 1942, Lieutenant Colonel (Temporary) Frederick Walsingham Brodie GOOD gained promotion to the rank of Acting Lieutenant Colonel, and assumed an appointment as the commanding officer of the Royal Armoured Corps Depot in India.” 50 Indian Tank Brigade www.BritishMilitaryHistory.co.uk Author: Robert PALMER, M.A

“Because I know he was in Poona in 1941-42, I assume he must have been with 2 RTR" WW2Talk Internet Forum

“I know he was in Poona around 1944, I know he drove tanks, and he said he was RAC. It looks from my research like 146th Regt was the only RAC unit posted there” WW2Talk Internet Forum

“Upon their arrival in India on 24 October 1941, the battalions moved to Poona to come under command of the Heavy Armoured Brigade. The 9th Bn. The Duke of Wellington’s Regiment became the 146th Regiment, Royal Armoured Corps on 22 October 1941. The 7th Bn. K.O.Y.L.I. formally became the 149th Regiment, Royal Armoured Corps with effect from 22 November 1941. On the same day, the 10th Bn. The York and Lancaster Regiment became the 150th Regiment, Royal Armoured Corps. On 31 October 1941, the Heavy Armoured Brigade was redesignated as the 50th Indian Tank Brigade.
The new brigade commenced training in its new role, which took about eight months to achieve. The brigade steadily took ownership of Valentine tanks. These were British built, infantry tanks that weighed seventeen tons. In January 1942, the officers and non-commissioned officers who had been on conversion courses in the U.K. returned to their regiments, and the training grew in intensity. There were some officers and men transferred from the Royal Tank Regiment to the new armoured regiments to aid conversion.
On 10 April 1942, the 149th Regiment moved from Poona to join the rest of the brigade at Dhond, in a hutted camp. In May 1942, the brigade concentrated at Ahmednagar, drew more tanks from the Arsenal at Kirkee and completed their first, brigade exercise over the next twelve days. On 2 July 1942, the brigade moved to Ranchi area to commence jungle warfare and all-arms training in preparation for operational deployment. The brigade came under command of the XV Indian Corps, but the 150th Regiment was deployed independently from the brigade to come under command of the 19th Indian Infantry Division. The 150th Regiment, R.A.C. was attached to the 19th Indian Infantry Division in the Madras area for nine months. It participated in Exercise ‘Trump’, which brought together three battalions of the York and Lancaster Regiment.
On 8 August 1942, Lieutenant Colonel (Temporary) Frederick Walsingham Brodie GOOD gained promotion to the rank of Acting Lieutenant Colonel, and assumed an appointment as the commanding officer of the Royal Armoured Corps Depot in India. GOOD assumed command of the 149th Regiment, R.A.C. three months later (in February 1943), and was promoted to the rank of Temporary Lieutenant Colonel on 8 November 1942.
In May 1943, the brigade and its two constituent units moved back to Poona, being based at Nira Camp. Meanwhile, on 16 April 1943, the 150th Regiment, R.A.C. had moved to Ahmednagar to join the 2nd Infantry Division." 50 Indian Tank Brigade www.BritishMilitaryHistory.co.uk Author: Robert PALMER, M.A

"We returned to the ship and later in the day disembarked and boarded a train bound for the Royal Armoured Corps Depot at Poona, some ninety miles up country. On arrival at the Depot, we were allocated to a hut and had a quick meal and by that time it was dark. Not knowing the geography of the place, it seemed the best idea was to go to bed and sort things out in the morning. Then came the job of erecting one’s mosquito net. We had settled down to sleep but were awakened by someone calling our names. The time was around 22.00 hours and it was the Orderly Room Runner to say that we were required at the office for an interview. We quickly dressed and followed our caller to the office, carefully noting the route to ensure we could find our way back. A Major wanted to talk to us about joining the 25th Dragoons, a tank regiment that had been involved in the battles in Burma." WW2Talk Internet Forum harkness, Apr 15, 2019

“Instructor on DD Tanks. In 1944 I was drafted to Cocanada from RAC Depot Poona for an attatchment to the 25th Dragoons as a member of No 7 Training Team. My job was to train the 25th Dragoons on DD Shermans for the planned invasion of Malaya. We lived in Bashers which where accommodation made from palm leaves and bamboo poles. The training took place around the Bay of Bengal off an Island known as Spit." BBC – WW2 Peoples War S.W. Jackson 5 Oct 2005

“The Regiment returned to Poona just over one hundred years later when 2nd Queen’s arrived there from Ranchi in June 1945. There were then a large number of units and installations in the Poona area including the depot of the Indian Army, Bombay Sappers and Miners and the arsenal at Kirkee a couple of miles from the city, an RAF station, the Signals School, and the Southern Command Education Centre at the Deccan College. In the early years of World War Two the college had been taken over by the Indian Army Tactical School which taught armoured warfare.
The Queen’s were stationed initially at Uruli, seventeen miles from Poona, before moving in September after the war with Japan was over to a mainly tented camp on the Pashan Plain four miles to the west of the city. In July Pashan Camp was taken over by the 4th Indian Division and 2nd Queen’s moved to Kharakavasla South Camp on the shores of Lake Fife twelve miles from Poona. During the war the lake had been used for combined operations training.” The Queen’s Royal Surrey Regiment Association https://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/reg_in_india/india50_1.shtml

Therefore, my research confirms that there probably was an RAC Depot Poona, and it may also have been referred to as RAC Depot India. I assume it was used as a holding unit for individuals, but it was probably also a holding location for complete units being refitted and reorganised ready for future operational duty. There were a number of separate Camps in the area, other logistics units, an Ordnance Depot and a heavy workshop nearby at Kirkee.


Can anyone provide any extra information about the RAC Depot Poona, exactly which camp it was located, what was its role and how was it organised?

 

Attach is a link to an audio by

Freer, Arthur Francis (Oral history)

In the second reel, right at the end, he talks about being at RAC Depot Poona

Freer, Arthur Francis (Oral history)

 

Aeronautical Map of India, showing Poona (near Bombay) 1944



Malabar Pont, India

 

Poona - First and Last - now called Pune

My uncle was posted to Poona after 14th Army Signals. Here he trained as a Signals Instructor with the Signals School after a short spell in the Infantry Training School. He then went North to the 1st Wilts with whom he had served from March to May 1944..
Poona it seems was a major Training Centre for the British Army in India ,in the same way that Deouali was the main basic training and Transit Camp.

 

Temujin & Uncle Target,
Thank you for your very interesting responses. The map/chart is fantastic and a great find thank you. The Oral history from Arthur Francis Freer is amazing and definitely worth listening to the whole recording. I appreciate your efforts, Cheers, Jim

 

I have transcribed the comments from Freer, Arthur Francis (Oral History) as follows:

“Then I went to the RAC Depot at Poona where we really started training again, repeat training of each of the trades, each of the skills. They were turning out competent crew members of what ever trade. What ever they did they could do the other jobs to some degree.
For the first year in India I never really had an appetite for food because of the heat, again poverty I thought was far worse than Egypt. In Poona itself, it was a semi hill station and I didn’t see an awful lot of poverty. I was in the Depot most of the time and I only went to the town two or three times.” Oral history of Arthur Francis Freer, who was an NCO serving with 3rd Carabiniers in India & Burma 10/1943 – 5/1945. End of reel 2 (27:50) IWM Catalogue number 19822”

 

There is official recognition in a War Office document in 1944:

"three page list of the Regimental Centres and Corps Depot in India early 1944. It was in 202 LOC War Diary" Posted by Skoyen89, 12 November 2023.

The first line of the list reads " RAC Depot Poona"

 

Hello, I am trying to research my grandfather war service, he served in India and Burma . He was in 149th regiment RAC 7th battalion koyli. I would appreciate any help . I am particularly interested to see if there are any photos of his unit any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

George,

Welcome aboard, I would recommend you start a new thread in the right area. This thread does include 149th. Some tips en route next.

 

davidbfpo thanks.

 

George,
Welcome to the forum. The following extracts from post #1 above:
"The 7th Bn. K.O.Y.L.I. formally became the 149th Regiment, Royal Armoured Corps with effect from 22 November 1941.
GOOD assumed command of the 149th Regiment, R.A.C. three months later (in February 1943), and was promoted to the rank of Temporary Lieutenant Colonel on 8 November 1942".
came from: "50 Indian Tank Brigade www.BritishMilitaryHistory.co.uk Author: Robert PALMER, M.A"
I would recommend that you follow that source for more information about 149 Regt RAC, I fully concur with davidbfpo in regards to a new thread.
All the best, Cheers, Jim

 

Thanks Jim I'll check it out.

 

I don’t know whether this was Poona or not. My grandfather Stanley Charles Clarke is on the far left, third row from the front. I thought it may be of interest.

 

JK,

I don't think your grand father has appeared here before. Do you have a Service Number? Bigger question: do you plan to research him to find more?

 

Hello,

Thanks David, I am in a fortunate position in that I have some of his handwritten notes from his time in India (mainly Ahmednagar) and some photographs he took there in the 1930s/40s, plus a few other bits and pieces in his wooden army trunk (letters home, Hindustani phrase books, official group photos).

I would love to be able to piece together his movements from the time he joined the army to the time he left, but especially the 1939-1945 period. I’ve been researching family history for over 20 years, but looking at army service is totally new to me.

I will check his service number and post here. Cheers, Justin

 

Justin,

I am fascinated by the Indian Army, so will watch and wait. Hence the following.

Welcome aboard. There is plenty of knowledge and expertise here.

We always recommend applying for the Service Record. It is the definitive account of his service. Yes, it can take time and regularly has good and disappointing responses. A very short note (copied from Clive): you will need his date of birth and death cert available here for £7 https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ Link for service records
Select the service - Apply for a deceased person's military record - GOV.UK

I would recommend you start a new thread in this area: Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy

It is vital you add his full name, Date of Birth, Service Number and if known their unit. Members can check their resources and do some online research. Others may be looking now and in the future for them; we regularly have people join who have found a post or thread about a relative.

It might be worth checking if there is a local newspaper article about him. Most public libraries have access to the British Newspaper Archive when in the library, not online.

On your current information he has not appeared here before today.

It helps to add a ‘tag’ when you create a thread, only you can do this. It is for the formation / corps involved or a theme like intelligence. Searching tags can identify threads, otherwise it takes a bit longer.

Some research tips, now a four pg. PDF available on: WW2 Soldier Research - Tips and Links for New Researchers (update) Plus: How to Start a new Thread / Edit Post / Upload Image

 

Thank you so much for your reply, this is all really helpful. Thanks to your guidance I’ve applied for Stan Clarke’s service record, plus his brother’s who was killed in action.

Good advice/info about how to get the best out of posting on this site - much appreciated.

cheers - Justin

 

Hi,

My late father and his brother fought in Burma with the KOYLI

This is a letter from his brother to me after my father died. It's how they enlisted and ended up in Burma
He avoids talking about the actual war as most preferred to forget what they experienced. I hope it helps someone.

"The bad part of our lives, your father's and mine, was in 1938 which found us on 21st December at the recruiting office in Manningham Lane, Bradford signing up for 7 years and 5 reserve so the evening of 21st December we were in Pontefract Barracks.
Your grandmother and grandad were invited for the day to see how we were coping at the start of our new life in the army.
After that day we got down to training such as drilling and gymnasium, marches, rifle shooting and after months of this we were passed out, which was on a Friday so that we had the weekend on leave.
We were transferred to Strensall, Queen Elizabeth Barracks to make up the 1st Battalion KOYLI. Your father was in C company and I was in HQ company. The training continued but adding to that there were route marches and manoeuvres which meant all day and nights out in the open all weathers, and guard duties.
This carried on until well into the year of 1939 October/November. War was declared on 3rd September 1939.
November 1939 saw me going to France BEF and as for your father I didn't see him for some time. Whilst I was in France I suffered an accident which put me in hospital, army one, but after a short while I was put on an army boat for England to Birmingham hospital arriving there about the evening. In the morning I heard about the start of Dunkirk.
I was in the hospital about a month and on discharge given a month's leave. Whilst on leave I received orders to go to Glasgow, St Thomas's school where the 7th Battalion was being formed. It was then that I met your father.
After greetings I asked him where he'd been, He said, "Well I was in London for some high up reason and went to Holland"
I took it that he had been on some dangerous games so I didn't press him for further information. I didn't think that I should at that time.
We saw a lot of each other when not training. After some months in Glasgow we were on our way to the South East, Essex to be exact, Burnham on Crouch. I billeted in a large house used to be a doctor's house and your father was further down the road in the Corinthian boat club. It was about the time of a threatened invasion by the Germans.
We went further nearer the coast where mines were laid and more to be laid. There was a fatal accident which was Eastwick, a shock to all of us at the time.
After that we moved further inland to Bradwell on Sea, Althorne and Rayleigh, Essex.
Back to movements. Had been several months in Bradwell on Sea, Althorne and Rayleigh, we moved to Brentwood, about 20 miles towards London, camping in the woods.
We were there for about 2 months and this was 1941 then we moved to Cheltenham racecourse. The stables were our living quarters for a few days then we moved to Southampton docks to embark on The Viceroy of India to go to India. We set sail on 20-8-41, my birthday and arrived in Bombay 24-10-41, your father's birthday.
I believe we had traveled 12,532 nautical miles and it's only about 8,000 miles to India but you're dodging u-boats and other things of danger.
Well, having arrived in Bombay, we disembarked and went on a train to Poona.
Having arrived in Poona, into barracks, a bit frightening at first when you are watching Chameleons running up and down the wall but we had to get used to it and also other insects like scorpions and millipedes.
You may have heard about mad dogs and Englishmen out in the midday sun, well that was us.
Also we got prickly heat and when you get it you have to stand naked in a down pour of rain to clear it, and there is the worst of all diseases one can easily get, dysentery and Malaria. Luckily I only got one of them, dysentery. ( Note - My father had malaria and he had recurrent bouts after he came home)
Poona was the starting point for what was to come on all our travels up to Burma, not forgetting snakes and animals.
Whilst in Poona our regiment changed to 149 RAC Royal Armoured Corps. We were then on courses learning to drive vehicles and after that tanks. I think your father was a driver mechanic II and if you have his discharge papers from the army that should tell you.
Having gone through all the training for tanks (Grants and Lee ) we then started moving after the few months in Poona.
This was the last time on any training, we were all ready to go forward. I saw your father once before we started moving. He told me that he'd been up to the Assam border and he said something about tunnels so there must have been some action there. That, if I remember rightly was the last time I saw of your father.
149 RAC was made up of squadrons not companies, so your father was in another squadron. I was in HQ and he might have still been in C Squadron.
So, when we left Poona, to go further towards Burma ABC and D squadrons must have been in advance.
It took time to get where they were going and it was done in stages.
I wrote about the things we came up against in Poona but it was very much worse in the jungle towards Burma, the threat of disease being more rife. I have been to Kohima and Imphal, that was bad enough. Thinking about it is bad enough by all who went there.
It was time for the tanks' return to base, they were being relieved and I was once again with your father on the Empress of Bermuda but once again I didn't question him. I don't think he would have said anything. He seemed alright to me at the time but one could never tell."

 

Diane,

Thanks for posting the letter. Are you willing to share your relatives full details? Name, DoB and Service Number. We often have people arrive here after finding them in an online search.

Later today I will see if there is a suitable thread for the 7th KOYLI (Update no such thread) which became the 149th Regiment, Royal Armoured Corps with effect from 22 November 1941 and copy your post there (Post copied to Oyster box Imphal ).

I am sure Justin will be interested, so will drop him a PM next.

 

My Father's full name was
ROBERT MATTHEW LEARY 4691144 DOB 24th October 1920
Joined the 1st battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry C company on 21st December 1938 at the recruiting office in Mannigham Lane, Bradford.