Punjab Regiment

Hi.

Anybody knows the ethnic composition of 3rd battalion of 8th regiment and 3rd of 15th regiment in 1943?
Were they all Punjabi Muslim or also Sikhs, Gujars and Jats?

I know that before 1947, the ethnic composition of the Punjabi Regiment consisted of Punjabi Muslim 50%; Sikhs 10%; Punjabi Hindu 40%.

Was a battalion made up of only one "Martial Class"?

Others infos about the two battalions?

Thank you in advance.
IKE

 

While don't know exact composition of those two battalion, all six Punjab Regiment, 1st, 2nd, 8th, 14th, 15th & 16th, had mixed composition. None of their battalions had uniform composition from only one ethnic/religious group. Out of four infantry companies in battalion for example one would be composed of Sikh, one of Dogra, two of Punjabi Muslim while HQ Company platoons consisted of men from all three groups.

 

Thak you Sol

 

You beat me to it.

I offer the following instead. I know I always bang on about it, but as a regimental history this one is beautiful and very well-written.

 

Thank you Owen.

Does Elliott's book speak about battle of Sangro or Campaign in Italy? Do you recommend it?

(I have already the book THE CAMPAIGN IN ITALY 1943-45 Dharm Pal)

 

I have the detail of the 3/8 Punjab Regt’s assault over the Gari/Rapido during the Fourth Battle of Monte Cassino if that helps.

I also have some pages from their War Diary when they were up on the Sangro supporting 2 NZ Div.

Just Start a Conversation with me and I will email you what I have.

Regards

Frank

 

Unfortunately, neither the 8th nor 15th Punjab Regiments have a WWII regimental history. Here are some scans from Galylor's Sons of John Company regarding class composition in the two regiments.

As an example, 2nd Battalion, 15th Punjab Regiment served in Sarawak and Borneo in 1941 and 1942. On January 4th, 1942 it was reorganized with ‘A’ (Sikh), ‘B’ (PM), ‘C’ (Khattak) and ‘D’ (Jat) Companies.

 

Here is the class composition for the two battalions listed in the October 1939 Indian Army List.

 

I tried to make a list of books about 8th indian division 's history regiments (from Imperial War Museum catalogue):

17th Brigade

- Royal Fusilier: Memoirs of military service, 1939-1945 England, Middle East and Italy Printed in association with The Royal Fusilier Museum HICKIE, JAMES F. (Author) Warminster Press (printer) (Publisher) Place made Warminster, Wiltshire
IWM LBY K. 04 /3106

- Frontier Force regiment (1/12th) IWM LBY 31986

- 5th Royal Gurkha Rifles: Desperate Encounters. Stories of The 5th Royal Gurkha Rifles of the Punjab Frontier Force. Robert Maxwell. Editore: The Pentland Press, Edinburgh, 1986. (1986) IWM LBY 87 / 718
Anonymous. History of the 5th Royal Gurkha Rifles (Frontier Force), volume II: 1929-1947. Aldershot: Gale and Polden, 1956
IWM LBY 13477


19th Brigade

- 1/5th Essex: MARTIN, T.A. (Author) ESSEX REGIMENT ASSOCIATION (Author) Essex Regiment Association (Publisher) Production date 1952 IWM LBY 60576

- 6/13th Frontier Force: RiflesBunbury, N. L. St. P. Regimental History of the 6th Royal Battalion (Scinde), 13th Frontier Force Rifles, 1934-1947. Aldershot: Gale and Polden, 1951 (Author) IWM LBY 31126

- 8th Punjab Regiment: Ahmad, Rifat Nadeem and Rafiuddin Ahmed. Unfaded Glory: The 8th Punjab Regiment 1798-1956. Abbottabad, Pakistan: Baloch Regimental Centre, 2007 IWM LBY 07 / 2537


21st Brigade

- Royal West Kent Regiment: THE QUEEN'S OWN ROYAL WEST KENT REGIMENT 1920-1950 Michael Joseph (Publisher) CHAPLIN, H.D. (Author) Production date 1954 Place made London IWM LBY 34538

- 1/5th Mahratta: Abhyankar, M.B. Valour Enshrined: A History of the Mahratta Light Infantry, 1768-1947. New Delhi: Orient Longmans, 1971 LBY 79 / 2512

- 3/15th Punjab: nothing


Brock, F. The 6th Duke of Connaught's Own Lancers in Italy, September 1943 - May 1945. Durban, South Africa: Self-Published, 1948 LBY 25624


Except 6/13th FF, none for the specific battalion. And I really don't know if they speaks about the battle of Sangro and beyond.
Do you know if I can find at least on on line?
Unfortunately no hope to find them in Italy.

 

The Frontier Force Rifles and, I think, the Queen's Own Royal West Kent and Essex Regiment histories have been reprinted by the Naval and Military Press.

There is also a regimental history for the Royal Fusiliers called Always A Fusilier.

 

By coincidence, I've just began to write up the story of a Chindit POW, who was with the the 5/15 Punjabis before transferring to 77th Indian Infantry Brigade in October 1942.

EC/3203 Captain H. (Harold I believe) Machin.

 

6/13th FFR there is the History book from 1843 to 1923
RWK: there is the volume of history regiment from 1920 to 1950 (not very cheap)
Essex: I found this Essex Regiment 1929 - 1950 (Paperback) Col T a Martin M B E but I don't know if it speaks about Campaign in Italy

 

Desperate Encounters gives brief account of 1/5th Royal Gurkha Rifles in Italy but only during 1943. There is nothing after that. And I think that account is mostly based on official history of the regiment.

Some other books written by men who served in the 8th Indian Division in Italy

With the Argylls: A Sldier's Memoir by Ray Ward. Previously book was published under the name The Mirror of Monte Cavallara.
Yadgari, Or, Memories of the Raj by Henry Cubitt-Smith. Cubitt-Smith was CO of 1/12th Frontier Force Regiment.

 

The 4th/15th Punjab Regt were in India and Burma in 1943-5 and they had four companies made up of Sikh, Jats, Khattaks and Punjabi Moslems (Musselmen).

 

There is a Kindle book published in 2014, by one of the officers of the 6/13th Royal Scinde Frontier Force Regiment 'One Hell Of a Life: An Anglo-Indian Wallah's Memoir from the Last Decades of the Raj' by Stan Blackford. Just skimmed parts of the book on Google books. He joined the battalion in 1946 just before its departure for Basra, Iraq as part of Force 401; he later left the Army for Australia. See: https://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Hell-Life-Anglo-Indian-Wallahs-ebook/dp/B00MN4VHBC

 

Saverio, rather late to this thread. If you still need the pages from (the hardback) version 1/5 Essex, chapter six pages-356-438 then i have them nicely done on a camera by another forum member. Just provide me with your email address on the private message that you have going with me & will send them over?

Regards
Stu..

 

Thanks You Stu.

I have It now.

Regards