POW Service and Paybook's

Discussion in 'WW2 Militaria' started by AB64, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    1935 HALL.jpg

    991954 John Parry HALL of 11th RHA who was captured 21/1/42 in the German Counter Offensive around El Agheira
     
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  2. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member Patron

    He is recorded in WO392/21 as being held at Campo 65, Gravina, near Altamura.


    Hall JP. 2.jpg
     
  3. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    437 phillips.jpg

    Morton George Phillips 2909 (later 200917) of 2/1st London Regiment who was taking POW 21/4/18 at Villers - I'm not certain of his Battalion as there seems to have been a bit of restructuring and by the time he was captured 2/1st doesn't seem to have existed which makes it difficult to find the correct War Diary that covers him
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Silver War Badge Records, 1914-1920
    Name: Morton G. Phillips
    Rank: CSM
    Military Year: 1920
    Regiment: London Regiment
    Regimental Number: 200917
    Discharge Unit: London
    Discharge Regiment: 1st Ldn Rgt.
    Badge Number: 473582
    Piece: 3176
    List Number: TP 5201-5500
    Record Group: WO
    Record Class: 329
    wo329_3176-00170.jpg

    30850_A001232-02314.jpg

    UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
    Name: Morton George Phillips
    Military Year: 1914-1920
    Rank: Company Sergeant Major
    Unit: 1st (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers)
    Company: WO 329
    Regiment or Corps: London Regiment
    Regiment Number: 200917
    Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
    41629_625537_9820-00123.jpg

    These all seem to refer to 1st (City of London) Battalion
     
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  5. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    If you look at London Regiment - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk) there isn't a straightforward 1st Battalion, at the top of the 1st page his unit is given as 2/1st and 8/3/16 he signs his will off as 2/1st - a couple of months later 2/1st was disbanded so not sure where he went then - his POW records from the Red Cross again say 1st London's but there isn't a 1st and lots of 1/... Battalions. I guess I should check the WD's for the disbandment in case it has a list of postings
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Those battalions are a minefield

    1/1st (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers)
    6 February 1918 : absorbed the disbanded 2/1st Bn and renamed 1st Bn
     
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  7. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    Cheers for that, I managed not to see the wood for the trees - however while that does tie in with the records it adds more confusion as at that time they were out the line (and in a different place) they were providing work parties but no casualties (1 wounded the next day) with this gent being a CSM if he was missing/captured on a quiet day I'd expect a mention. I think the search goes on unfortunately
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I guess its narrowed it down to about 3 months, do you info saying what the 1st were doing in April 1918?

    Would assume he was captured during the Ludendorff offensive or German spring offensive -
    Ludendorff offensive, was a series of German attacks along the Western Front during the First World War
    Date 21 March – 18 July 1918
    German spring offensive - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  9. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    As mentioned the 1st were doing work parties so basically assisting in rear areas and around Arras (which is about 20 miles from Villers). The Germans attacked Villers early April but were held up but attacked again on the 24th April - the 2 Red Cross Docs mention 21st, but I wonder if it may have been the 24th, on the medal roll you posted it has him with the London's until 24/4/18 so I'd say thats the point the Army considers him off their strength.

    If he was captured at the 2nd Battle of Villers Bretonneux it would probably be 173rd Brigade although I need to check the makeup of the Brigade
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  11. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    1869 FITZGERALD.jpg

    B720 Rifleman John E Fitzgerald, 8th Rifle Brigade - captured probably March - April 1918, at some point he also suffered a shrapnel wound I think to the leg - nice of him to have what is basically a "Business Card" showing exact details of his unit.

    I've had CSM Phillips AB64 for years and this one for about a year and had no idea either were POW's but every now and again going back over records can turn things up, so always worth revisiting bits you thought you had taken to their limits just in case - the WW1 casualty lists available through the National Library of Scotland website and covering late war turned up Fitzgerald as missing (Red Cross website confirmed him as a POW) and also revealed that about 10 other men whose paybooks I have were wounded where previously I thought they had made it through unscathed.

    IMG_20201031_0009.jpg IMG_20201031_0008.jpg
     
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  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, British Army World War I Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
    Name: John E Fitzgerald
    Military Date: 1914-1920
    Military Place: England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, United Kingdom
    Regiment or Corps: Rifle Brigade
    Regimental Number: B720
    30850_A000543-00081.jpg


    UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
    Name: John Edward Fitzgerald
    Military Year: 1914-1920
    Rank: Private
    Company: WO 329
    Regiment or Corps: Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort´s Own)
    Regiment Number: B/720
    Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
    41629_636897_11139-00192.jpg
     
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  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Alastair,

    You may not be aware that Red Cross digitised their WW1 records in time for the 2014 centenary and created an internet searchable database.

    You may well find quality information on his unit at the time of his capture via that avenue of enquiry.

    From posts on GWF I know that it is a database that is sometimes difficult to navigate (rather like London Gazette) but I’ll try and find a link for you and add it in this post by an edit.

    Steve

    EDIT TO ADD

    I’ve copied and posted this link from GWF - just change the name field to your man.

    Good Luck

    Steve

    Prisoners of the First World War | International Committee of the Red Cross - Specify your search criteria

    Further edit to add that having now read your Fitzgerald post above I suspect you may already be aware of the Red Cross database.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
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  14. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    Hi Steve, Yup I've been using the Red Cross website to check my WW1 POW's, you don't get much but it tends to give the date and place of capture as well as a note if they were wounded which is very useful - sometimes you also get a bit about them being freed - unfortunately for Fitzgerald he just has the index card and a list saying he has been freed
     
  15. NICOLA TURNER

    NICOLA TURNER New Member

    This belonged to my Grandfather who died in 1999
     
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