POW Cards From National Archives, can't make head or tail of em because of German handwriting

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by Mallarkey, Nov 14, 2021.

  1. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

    Hi Folks,

    I recently made a trip to Kew Gardens to get info on a relative and was luckily enough to find his POW Cards and liberation questionnaire. And I'm finding the information hard to decipher, and some of it is conflicting.

    I'm trying to track his movement through the POW camp system but he went to so many it's overwhelming. I'll attach three sources which relate to his whereabouts, 2 from the German cards and one from the Liberation questionnaire. All of the camps are within the Werkreise XXI series of camps.

    Image 1
    All I can gather up until now is
    1. From his capture on the 30/05/40, he went to Trier,
    2. He was recieved at Stalag XXI B Schubin 12 days later on the 11/06/40.
    3. On 12/09/40 I'm guessing he moved from Schubin to 'XXI C/H', which refers to Wollstein. Not sure why the next line down has XXI B again.
    4. The entry 3 days later on the 15th is confusing to me for several reasons. One, what is 'Italy' doing there, two, Bau Arbeits Batallion 21 was never in 'Posen' as far as I can tell, 3. Why the duplication one line down.
    5. The move to Schildberg makes sense as I have a record of his admission to hospital on that date, and I thin there was a field hospital there (third image down), though the rest of that entry is hard to reconcile.

    upload_2021-11-14_14-11-38.jpeg

    Image 2 (Overleaf of image 1)
    6. First few entries refers to same visit,
    7. His move back to BAB21
    upload_2021-11-14_14-12-9.jpeg

    Refers to a hospital visit, not sure what Warthelager refers to, or the words below Stalag XXI A
    upload_2021-11-14_14-30-49.jpeg

    This next image from a different card seems to show him at BAB21 later than the first card. Also, is ST 344 Lamsdorf?
    upload_2021-11-14_14-13-9.jpeg
    upload_2021-11-14_14-13-44.jpeg
    From his liberation questionnaire:

    upload_2021-11-14_14-14-27.jpeg

    I suppose the liberation questionnaire might be the least reliable as I doubt POWs had anything to refer to and the times/places may have been guesstimates.

    If anyone can help me compile a definite timeline I'd be made up. But even if you just would like to comment please do!

    Mark
     
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  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    POWs are not my scene but I believe this is him?

    913826 Gnr H J (Henry James) DUNN / 140 Field Regt, RA

    Casualty List No 262 Dated 23 July 1940 - Missing, France 10/5 - 16/6 1940
    Casualty List No 297 Dated 2 Sept 1940 - POW, previously reported missing
    Casualty List No 1806 Dated 12 July 1945 - Previously reported POW in German hands, now not POW

    WO 392/1 - Camp BAB 21 (Bau und Arbeits Battalion 21, Belchammer) / POW No 4217
    WO 392/11 - Camp Stalag 344 (Lamsdorf) / POW No 4217
     
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  3. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

    That's the fellow!
     
  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    You really need the assistance of a member who can read “Sutterlin” script as the type (no pun) of “Old German” writing on the POW Index card is called.

    You may be best advised to amend your topic heading to something like “U.K. National Archive German language POW Index Card Translation Assistance Required” or perhaps a helpful moderator may do it for you?

    My father’s German POW Index card wasn’t as “busy” as your example and I was able to work out the details from comparison with his Liberation Questionnaire.

    Good Luck.

    Steve

    EDIT TO DD

    You might want to contact Swiss Red Cross in January 2022 for copies of records from their archives which will likely corroborate details in the sources held at Kew and may add more detail (I received a copy of a “capture card” postcard sent by my father).

    Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

    It’s a free service.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    ltdan or Lindele might be able to help with the German handwriting.
     
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  6. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

    Thanks for the advice Steve, I'll definitely try the Red Cross in January. You have to have fast fingers from what I've read!
     
  7. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Italy is in fact Stlg --> short form of Stalag (we Germans have a weird tendency to abbreviate even abbreviations)

    The Kriegsgefangenen-Bau- und Arbeits-Bataillon 21 was formed on 15 September 1940 in the Wehrkreis XXI (Posen). In 1940 the battalion was deployed in the Wollstein area and in 1941 in the Breslau area. On 10 March 1942 the battalion was transferred to Blechhammer near Heydebreck. On 10 March 1943, the remnants of the POW Construction and Labour Battalion 48 were incorporated into the battalion. The battalion consisted of British and French prisoners of war and had a maximum strength of 1,200 men.
    source: G. Mattiello / W. Vogt: Deutsche Kriegsgefangenen- und Internierteneinrichtungen 1939 -1945 - Handbuch und Katalog Lagergeschichte und Lagerzensurstempel - Band 2: Oflag, BAB, Dulag etc, Selbstverlag 1987

    Zugang/Woher --> Approached - Where from: WARTHELAGER*
    *EDIT: Warthelager was a military training area north of Posen/Poznan. A temporary collective camp for prisoners of war was set up there, where many soldiers of the BEF were also accommodated.
    First the English prisoners of war came to Kaniow. After the Warthelager was expanded, the prisoners of war were housed in new barracks near kitchen No. 17. Later they were relocated near Msciszewo on the Warta River.

    source: Warthelager in Posen - Forum der Wehrmacht
    see also:
    Confusion over Stalag XXI B

    Abgang - wie, wohin --> Departure - how, where: STALAG XXI A Teillager Lemmer[?]
    Several POW camps were grouped together into a "camp administration" or "camp group" whose external marker was a common "camp number". The headquarters of the camp administration was in the "Hauptlager". The remaining camps (3 to 25) were designated "Teillager" or "Nebenlager". (sub-camps)

    The location of "Lemmer" is difficult to trace nowadays, as everything in the region was renamed after 1945.

    Stalag 344 Lamsdorf, 11/43 - 3/45

    Hope this helps. ( I am so glad that there was no Sütterlin - I would have capitulated and referred to member "raut", who obviously has a pretty good knowledge of it.)

    regards
    Olli
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  8. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    The gap of Jan - April 1945 on his liberation questionaire is almost certainly the time he would have been on the forced march of pow's from the Eastern camps away from the advancing Russian Forces. Several of these marches ended up at the already crowded Moosburg Camp.
     
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  9. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

    It helps greatly Olli, thank you very much.
     
  10. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

    Thanks Travers, I had no idea they marched for that long. 3 months! That's brutal.
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  12. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

  13. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

  14. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

  15. Mallarkey

    Mallarkey Member

    I'm trying to get a chronology of his journey before I take a deep dive into the details for each camp, and I came up with this, if anyone has anything to add I thank you in advance!

    30/05/40 Captured at Watteau (Watou, Belgium)
    Marched to Trier
    11.06.40 Arrived at Stalag XXIB Schubin
    12.09.40 Arrived at XXI C/H Wollstein
    15.09.40 BAB21 Established in Posen/Wollstein, Harry put on the work group.
    03.09.41 Transferred to a Hospital in Schildberg, which was attached to Stalag XXIA
    04.09.41 Released from hospital to Stalag XXI A
    09.12.41 Sent back to BAB 21 at Posen
    10.03.42 BAB21 transferred to Blechhammer, was an orderly
    Jan-April 1945 Marched to Moosburg
    12.05.45 May Liberated
     
  16. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    German prisoner-of-war camps in World War II - Wikipedia
    Military District XXI (Posen)
    Stalag XXI-A Schildberg (Poland)
    Stalag XXI-B Schubin (Poland)
    Stalag XXI-B Thure (Poland)
    Stalag XXI-C/H Wollstein (Poland)
    Stalag XXI-C/Z Graetz
    Stalag XXI-D Posen (Poland)
    Oflag XXI-A Schokken (Poland)
    Oflag XXI-B Schoken (Poland)
    Oflag XXI-C Schubin/Schokken/Schildberg (Poland)
    Oflag XXI-C/Z Grune bei Lissa (Poland)
     
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  18. 2ic

    2ic New Member

     
  19. 2ic

    2ic New Member

    If it is any help I have extensive information on BAB21 on my blog. BAB21 Regards.
     

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