Who ran the best POW camps? Who ran the worst POW camps. Did the Germans treat POWs better then the Allies?
The Americans definitly ran the best POW camps. They gave the Germans and Japanese alot of freedom and often the conditions were beter than in the army. The germans were even allowed to hang Nazi flags and hold Nazi meetings to a certain extent although those were surveyed by a guard or two. The food was always better than in Germany and Japan. There's an excellent book by Time Life with all their pictures of the war. It's got a page of the prisoner camps. The worst camps were probably the Russian camps because of the lack of rules for the guards (no- one cared what the guards did to the prisoners) with the russian's hate for the Germans.
Originally posted by Dpalme01@Jun 10 2004, 06:47 PM The worst camps were probably the Russian camps because of the lack of rules for the guards (no- one cared what the guards did to the prisoners) with the russian's hate for the Germans. I can't see being a POW in a Jap camp being too much of a ball either! B.
Originally posted by BAYERNWALD+Jun 10 2004, 11:51 PM-->(BAYERNWALD @ Jun 10 2004, 11:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dpalme01@Jun 10 2004, 06:47 PM The worst camps were probably the Russian camps because of the lack of rules for the guards (no- one cared what the guards did to the prisoners) with the russian's hate for the Germans. I can't see being a POW in a Jap camp being too much of a ball either! B. [/b]That's also true. I have heard some stories about the Japanese camps, but I don't know that much about them. Do you have any more info? thanks in advance
he Russians made not preparations at all to deal with prisoners. After the battle of Stalingrad the Red Army stated that they took 111,465 prisoners this figure decreased rapidly as German POW's were forced marched, ill fed, randomly killed whilst malnutrition and frosbir became more serious. No camps had been set up to deal with the influx of prisoners by the Russians. Many thousands of Germans died and only very few memebers of the Sixth Army made it out of the Soviet Union after the war. Some German prisoners were not released until the late 1950's.
Originally posted by Danmark@Jun 1 2004, 11:37 AM Did the Germans treat POWs better then the Allies? Not if you were a Russian POW they didnt! Also, the Germans were very harsh to British POWs in 1940/1941. Several were shot soon after being captured, or on the trek into Germany. The POWs in the camps in the early days were starved and abused. It was only after the Allies had a lot of German prisoners that Germany took better care of British prisoners. Excluding those shot after "The Great Escape" there were those who died on the march west, away from the advancing Russians, in early 1945. Also, the Commando/Paratroop/SAS prisoners who were shot, on Hitlers orders, after capture. An illustrated book about Colditz has individual photos of British commandos who were staged through Colditz on their way to be "liquidated". They had been captured in Norway and were killed under the "Night and Fog" orders (Nacht und Nebel?)
Originally posted by BeppoSapone@Jun 20 2004, 06:45 AM Also, the Commando/Paratroop/SAS prisoners who were shot, on Hitlers orders, after capture. An illustrated book about Colditz has individual photos of British Commandos who were staged through Colditz on their way to be "liquidated". They had been captured in Norway and were killed under the "Night and Fog" orders (Nacht und Nebel?) IIRC the book had photos of 6 or 8 captured Commando's, not in civilian clothes but men in full battledress, complete with the rope "toggle" used for climbing. Here are a couple of the soldiers in question Londoner 21 year old Pte. Eric Curtis, Royal West Kents & No 2 Commando: http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...asualty=2145740 Captain "Cowboy" Black, South Lancs & No. 2 Commando, who was a Canadian in the British Army: http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...asualty=2145260 Both men are listed with a date of death of 23rd October 1942, and are on the Brookwood Memorial - you don't have a known grave if you "went up the chimney"! Anyone have the full story of the raid? Full list of names? Even the photos? Ask these Commando's how well the Germans treated POWs?
Originally posted by BeppoSapone@Jun 20 2004, 09:13 AM Anyone have the full story of the raid? Full list of names? Even the photos? I did a bit of "Googling" and came up with "Operation Musketoon", which names all of the captured Commando's who were executed. http://www.combinedops.com/glomfjord.htm
Originally posted by Dpalme01@Jun 11 2004, 02:43 AM That's also true. I have heard some stories about the Japanese camps, but I don't know that much about them. Do you have any more info? thanks in advance [post=25977]Quoted post[/post] well, i read something in penthouse 3 years ago about japanese death factories during ww2. it's seems that they were very close to germans with doing experiments on mens. i read that they has some concentration camps near chinesse border where the had few experiments. they also poisoned water near little village to se what will happend with people who did knew what's going on. about pow's: one of stories i read in penthouse was about mens whoose limb were frozen, then de-frozen again, seeing how long men could take the pain. mens were infected with bacteries and viruses so "doctors" could how long and with what kind of "treatment" patient could live. same thing like mengele did to the jews. most of those mens were chinesse from mandjuria (don't know how doest it spells in english)...
Do you know any other museums of POW's Camp in Europe? If you visit Poland... http://www.uni.opole.pl/cmjw/eindex.html http://free.polbox.pl/l/luftstal/english.htm
Another site, this time about Stallag for women POWs in Oberlangen http://www.polishresistance-ak.org/16%20Article.htm
The American POW camps were among the best-run of the war, with German troops getting paid, allowed to celebrate their national (and Nazi) holidays, and getting food as good as US troops. They also got to sit in "white" railroad cars when traveling in the South. When Lena Horne went to sing to POWs and guards, the American guards, being black, were put in the rear, while the POWs, being white, were put in front. This was ridiculous, and Lena walked past the Germans and sang to her own people, pointing up the stupidity of segregation. As the war rolled on, the US turned their camps into POW re-education, to teach the POWs the ways of democracy. Initially, the classes fell on deaf ears, as most POWs in America were Afrika Korps veterans, who had high morale and great admiration for their Nazi leadership and its pre-war achievements. They regarded American war movies and claims as propaganda. It was only when bedraggled POWs from the European and Italian campaigns began showing up, telling stories of blasted cities and Anglo-American air supremacy, that the POWs began to question the situation. They had a harder time with the grim newsreel footage of the concentration camps. I'll give a tie between the Russians and Japanese for worst POW camps. Russian POW camps degenerated into cannibalism. Japanese camps were sheer sadism.
Zonderwater pow camp was one of the biggest allied camps and the Italian pow's were very well treated . It had all it's own facilities (like a small town ) Movie halls :req halls: churches : operating rooms etc My father was there and told us some storys of how life was at Zonderwater pow camp . South Africa was good to the Italian POW's
In Canada, the German pows were placed in remote places, far from any town or city, and many of the camps were located along the national railway line, in Northern Ontario. A place would be selected, and the prisoners would build the camp, themselves, using trees that they cut, which they cut to size with a saw mill mounted on a rail way flat bed car. The tools and supplies came in in on the train. Being as much as 100 miles from any form of habitation, there was no where to escape to. A couple of exceptions to the isolated camp idea, were located in southern Ontario, at Bomanville, near Toronto, and at Granvenhurst, in the Muskoka Lakes district. These were "officer only " camps, that held hard core Nazi sympathisers. After the war, Bomanville became a juvenile detention centre, and Bracebridge became the Ontario Fire Training College. After the war ended, prisoners were sent back to Germany, but in a few years , many of them were back in Canada, as legal Immigrants. And they are one of the most assimilated groups in Canada. On the treatment of Canadian pows by the Japanese. Two battalions of Canadians were part of the Hong Kong defence force. After the Christmas 1941 surrender, they were held by the Japanese, in various places, as slave labourers, until the end of the war, in the summer of 1945. Starvation, torture, and murder, at the hands of their captors, was their fate. Many of the modern day Japanese industrial corporations, such as Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, and Kawasaki, used Allied pows as slave labour, during WW2. That is a fact. The chances of dying as a pow of the Japanese, was five times higher than if you were held by the Germans. Even if you survived the experience, and made it home to Canada, you would die YOUNG, due to a lack of vitamins for an extended period of time, and many HK vets died in the 30's, from delayed disease conditions. About half of them died in captivity, in various ways. 800 calories a day, while working in a coal mine is not a way to live for very long. Today, one of the most rare men to meet is a surviving Canadian Hong Kong veteran. Most of them are long dead. The Japanese were brutal in their treatment of all their prisoners, of any nationality.
Canadian Virtual Military Museum article "On first glance, it may seem a simple photo of a hockey game and soldiers looking on. But on a closer look, something stands out – the soldiers are not Canadian. They are German. This picture, which I was very pleased to add to my collection, is a relatively rare photo of German POWs at Camp 23 (Monteith) playing hockey with their comrades watching from the sidelines. Considering tomorrow is Hockey Day in Canada, what better time is there for delving into a little history about German POWs and Canada’s national winter sport. With thousands of young, athletic men interned in Canada during the Second World War, sports became an especially popular and important way to pass the time. Prisoners in most internment camps set up their own teams and leagues and began playing football (soccer), baseball, volleyball, basketball, tennis, and – you guessed it – hockey. I have no record of how many POWs had played hockey before coming to Canada but hockey was an established sport in Germany, with the country taking the bronze medal in the 1932 Olympics. One also has to remember that many Canadians were interned in the early years of the war due to their status as “enemy aliens.” It is quite likely these men shared their skills with newly-arrived internees and EMS from the United Kingdom. As for the skates, sticks, pucks and other equipment, most was provided by aid organizations, most notably the War Prisoners’ Aid of the YMCA. This organization dedicated itself to improving the living conditions of POWs interned on both sides and did their utmost to meet the recreational, educational, and religious demands of POWs. The War Prisoners’ Aid and the International Red Cross began supplying generic articles to improve the lives of those interned in Canada but also allowed POWs to make specific requests. For example, in late 1940, among the articles requested by internees at Monteith were lights for their Christmas trees, twenty-four pairs of stakes, and twenty-four hockey sticks. The organization did have a budget to purchase items – ranging from ping pong balls to pianos – but also relied on donations. In an early report of the War Prisoners’ Aid, director Jerome Davis remarked, One Canadian manufacturer out of the generosity of his heart, contributed two hundred pairs of skates. The result was that we were aided in building skating rinks in almost every prison camp in Canada. later, the Canadian Government took pictures of these rinks and some of them were sent to Germany. Therefore, the act of the Canadian business man who desired simply to do a Christian act for imprisoned soldiers – men who are not criminals but simply soldiers out of luck had its repercussions internationally and the Canadian business man may actually have done more to hep the British prisoners than he could have by sending in skates directly to them. One Canadian sports equipment manufacturer out of the generosity of his heart, contributed two hundred pairs of skates to prisoners. The result was that we were aided in building skating rinks in almost every prison camp in Canada. later, the Canadian Government took pictures of these rinks and some of them were sent to Germany. The skates given to Dr. Boeschenstein of the War Prisoners’ Aid, demonstrates, the equipment was greatly appreciated and quickly put to good use. By December 1942, the War Prisoners’ Aid reported that every internment camp in Canada had, among other things, skates and a skating rink. In Camp 23 (Monteith), for example, POWs flooded the soccer field in the winter months and turned it into a skating and hockey rink while POWs at Camp 44 (Grande Ligne) converted their tennis courts into two skating rinks, one for hockey and the other for “fancy skating.” Limited for recreation in the winter months, these skates were in especially high demand; at Camp R (Red Rock) in March 1941, the skating rink was in use throughout the day but, only having thirty pairs of skates for 1,100 internees, the internees had to sign up in advance. Other camps were better-equipped; by 1943, Camp 21 (Espanola) had two skating rinks and 500 pairs of skates. The skills of those involved varied, as one report from Camp 44 (Grande Ligne) suggests: “One or two of the prisoners were quite good, but a number of them had not yet found their ice legs, and were falling around to the amusement of the on-lookers.” As skating and hockey grew in popularity, the War Prisoners’ Aid continued to send out skates and hockey equipment. In early 1944, the War Prisoners’ Aid reported they had sent out skates, hockey sticks, pucks, goal keepers’ outfits, and, in some cases, even skis. It was not only internment camps where hockey was popular. Prisoners in some of the almost 300 small, isolated labour projects also took up the sport. Those who found themselves working as woodcutters in the Northern Ontario bush frequently requested skates and hockey equipment to help pass the long winters. Fortunately for them, the pulpwood industry relied on waterways to move logs and most camps were located on the shores – or at least nearby to – streams, rivers, and lakes. Once cleared of snow, these frozen water bodies became natural ice rinks. Canadian Virtual Military Museum
