I have a first hand account of the escape post Dunkirk followed by the shipping out of St, Nazaire on the Ben-y-Chree II (edit to IV) (at the time the Lancastria was sunk) and on to Borden camp by my late father Jack Lee who gave his number as M10221027 of 217 car ambulance coy RASC, 51 HD. But I cannot find anything on these unsung heroes of the ambulance car companies or what happened to him after retraining in the UK although he did mention El Alamain so I assume he was in North Africa at that time too. He had the 1939-1945 star, Africa star and France and Germany star as well as what he called the NAFFI medals of Defence medal and '39-'45 medal, He was wounded and lost his left eye and hearing towards the end of the war I believe when training as a sergeant T/99927 (a/u/L/ Sgt) But I would like to verify what ever information I can regards him and the 3 car amb. Coy RASC
Hello and welcome to the forum. I would apply for his service records first to confirm the units he served with post Dunkirk throughout the war. Once you have the units you can obtain copies of his units War Diaries. Records can be applied for via the link below: Army Personnel Centre - British Army Website Ref 217 Amb Coy RASC I don't think there was such a unit in France from 39 to 40. All I have is: 1 Ambulance Car Company Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) 2 Ambulance Car Company Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) 3 Ambulance Car Company Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) Incidently regarding the Ben-y-Chree if memory serves me correct she was originally manned by a civilian/Merchant crew who refused to sail her to France and a Royal Navy crew boarded her. I can't check everything properly yet - I'm just going out the door so I'll be back later and pull some books off the shelf for you. Regards Andy
Dad said the Ben-y-Chree was an Isle of Man Packet steamer. I have found refernce to her and a photo. He didn't say she was maned by navy but he did say a "matlow" was at the gang plank dumping kit bags full of fags and looted money from the NAFFIs abandoned on the way, all they were allowed was tin hat and rifle. I know from his earlier writings on growing up in the black country in the 20s and 30s he was first in the Royal Engineers (as was I) but stuck in the 217 search light company RHA which is possible how some confusion arose. How he ended up in the RASC I don't know or if he was a medic or indeed an ambulance driver
I've checked my books and I think the Ben-y-Chree is actually the Ben-my-Chree. If it is the same boat he's some info on her: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/1940/30100-regiments-raoc-nantes.html As mentioned before I'd apply for his service records-If your father is still alive you can get them for free. Cheers Andy
Welcome indeed!! His records will be able to pin things down. Do you have the link for the MOD website for that? There are plenty of "217" units mentioned in the archives. 217 Field Company (Royal Engineers) 217 Light Anti Aircraft Battery 217 Heavy Anti Aircraft Battery 217 Field Ambulance 217 Company of the Royal Pioneers Lots of possibilities, all might have had some form of medical officer attached, who possibly had a vehicle at his disposal. Go for the records, and we can help you interpret them. Good Luck!
Ben My Chree II it is, just looked at the photo again, thanks Just remembered when I was born he was still in the army on converlesance leave (that's how he met Mum) and I have his last service number on my birth certificate, just need to find it now. National archives juist cam back with my estimate for a search and about as much use as a chocelate fire guard surgesting I should go to Kew, Hmmmm 1500 miles, I think not so better just plug away, so much conflicting info so far and like many men who went through that hell he was not forthcoming with tales of the war, just snippets here and there.
If thats her names then sorry I can't help - I've got five maritme related books on the evacuations from France during 1940 and between them they list all the boats used (1,300) and she's not in any of them I'm affraid. If you ID his unit, Service Records at a cost of £30, then you'll find out his unit(s) and pay someone to copy the diaries for you. Forum member PsyWar.Org charges 10p a page. Andy
Seems good ol' dad got it wrong, again, it was the Ben-My-Chree alright but the IV not II. no wonder research takes so long when "eye witnesses" get it wrong. Was it common for service numbers to change because Dad definet,y gave his as M10221027 in 1939 but on my birth cert Jan 1946 ( and I assume taken from his B108) was Sergeant T/99976 RASC
Having sorted out the boat as the Ben-My-Chree IV and the route and 217 seems to have been the searchlight company in the pre-war unit and it must have been 1,2, or 3 car ambulance company RASC, which could match up with "being attached to 51st HD. I find yet another puzzle to contend with, how does M/10221027 in 1939 get to be T/99976 in 1945? Which is strange as it doesn't comply with the 'normal', 8 digit system (e.g. mine is 23872916), unless the T is for those discharged on medical grounds, or TA. But there again I was medically discharged and my number stayed the same!
T/99976 is definately his service number. T stands for transport. As the RASC was divided into two main branches S was used for Supply and T for transport. Not sure what or where the other number comes from. Ref the Ben-My-Chree IV you still have the problem she was not at St. Nazaire in 1940. She was badly damaged at Dunkirk. Ref RASC Ambulance Car Company's, none of them served with the 51st Highland Division they were all in Base Sub Areas from what I can see. You really need to apply for his service records. If you get them, they will tell you his unit or units and then you can look in the units diary(s) to see where they were evacuated and they may even records the ship he was on etc. Cheers Andy
BIG thank you to all of you for your input even if it has raised as many questions as anwers which is healthy I guess. AS Dad was on shore under the rail trucks when Lancastria was hit at 16.00 and boarded that night up a gangplank from the harbour I have a small window of movement to look at. Been looking at SNO navy records for this period and the only ships that match time wise. ie, loaded about midnight and sailed early morning and arriving Plymouth 20th was the Oronsay and HMS John Holt but John Holt arrived Plymouth on the 19th and the Oronsay arrived Plymouth 15.47 on the 20th but according to another diary she was badly bome damaged and had only one engine working and manual steering and I am sure he would have mentioned that. She did take on board survivours of the Lancastria and I guess those who would have been about board her. Also leaving St. Nazaire at 0830 was Beagle to Falmouth, Ulster Prince to Falmouth, Clan Furguson to Plymouth but arrived 19th,at 10.00, Baharistan same, David Livingstone to Falmouth. A lot of movements don't fit and movements seem very haphazard at the time with ships being redirected to secondary ports as the situation on land changed with the German advance. In the original transcript Dad says he was on the "Ben McCree" but there was no such ship so I assumed the nearest miss heard name would be the "Ben My Chree (4, later renamed Ben-my-chree II)". I hope to be able to find out the truth one day but it looks like it's going to take time (and money, as Dad died in 1988 from fags)
Last time 'GET HIS SERVICE RECORDS' After two months I recieved a reply basicly saying I had supplied much the same information as they had on record (name, rank, number, unit, enlistment, discharge) and as it would be unlikely they had much more on record and theatres of action are not usually held so I could have my £30 back if I wished but if not it will take between 9 and 12 months. I have found another independent account placing the Ben-My-Chree at St, Nazaire though, weird!
Hi, Good to see you've applied for the, I think you'll find thats a standard letter the MoD send out just to let folk know how long the wait will be. Ref the Ben My Chree: All I can tell you is what is in my books. I have four naval books on the evacuation of the BEF and none list her at St. Nazaire as she was damaged at Dunkirk-See pictures below. I also now have some Admiralty files from the National Archives about the evacuation and they place her at Dunkirk too. Ref the unit within 51st HD I can not find a mention of this unit in 6 volumes of Alan Philson's BEF Order of Battle May 1940. The RASC Ambulance Car units listed are: No.s 1, 3, 5 and 37 Ambulance Car Companies No.s 1 to 7 Motor Ambulance Convoys. So unfortunately I can't find anything that ties in with what your saying, that doesn't mean its not true, it just means my books and files don't cover it.
I just did a quick search on the National Archives website for Ambulance Car units and these appear to be the only diaries avaialable: Detecting your browser settings Cheers Andy
Many thanks for the input, I know it all takes time on your part but it is very much appriciated. I have also requested the Wo 167/1112--3-4 files from the archives which might throw some light on the movemants. I have found (what I think) is a photo of him in Africa.
