Patton with a Walther and Colt

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Dave55, May 17, 2020.

  1. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Saw this great picture today.

    He's firing a Walther PP or PPK which was most like a war trophy. He has his 1908 General Officers model Colt 1908 in his holster, the one he shot at the 111 with in the movie :)

    Looks like he is a three or four star judging by his shoulder strap but his pistol still has three stars.


    General officer models[edit]

    General officer models were often engraved with the officer's name. Recipients include generals Eisenhower, Bradley, Marshall, and Patton. Patton's Model 1908 was embellished with three (later four) stars on the grip panels to denote his rank. They were issued with a fine-grade leather holster, leather pistol belt with gold-metal clasp, rope pistol lanyard with gold-metal fittings, and leather two-pocket ammunition pouch with gold-metal fasteners. They came in russet or black leather (depending on service and regulations) and were made by Atchison Leather Products or Hickock. A cleaning rod and two spare magazines were also included.[2] Generals were issued the Model M in .380 ACP, until 1950, when supplies ran out. At that point, they were substituted with .32 models until their replacement in 1972. The Pocket Hammerless was replaced by the M15 pistol made by Rock Island Arsenal in .45 ACP. Today, the Pocket Hammerless is manufactured by U.S. Armament, and is licensed by Colt.[3]

    Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless - Wikipedia
  2. WiltsHistory

    WiltsHistory Member

    Talk about embellishing rank slightly, stars on a pistol, really?
    Great photo though.

    I thought he mostly carried a revolver, Western style?
  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    I believe you're right that he favored revolvers. The western style one was a SAA .45 Colt that he got in 1916 and used in a fairly famous shoot out in Mexico. He supposedly got it after his new model 1911 automatic accidentally fired while he was wearing it. If true it sounds like carelessness on his part to me. His other famous revolver was a very early S&W double action .357 magnum. He almost never wore them both at the same time though and they were not a matched pair.

    An excuse repost a picture of my own favorite gun with a picture of Patton wearing his .22 Woodsman. He also carried a .25 Colt vest pocket auto sometimes when he was in civilian clothes.

    Colt Woodsman
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  4. WiltsHistory

    WiltsHistory Member

    Awesome info, thanks. Strange looking Colt though, looks more akin to one of those Japanese Nambu pistols with the long barrel and sloped grips.
    Single Action Army has got to be 'the' Western revolver, I have a cap gun that I've had since I was a boy - I think it is based upon it!
  5. WiltsHistory

    WiltsHistory Member

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  6. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    I'm glad you liked the info.

    TTH wrote extensively about the SSAs going to GB somewhere in this thread.

    Non-standard, substitute standard, and captured weapons in British and Commonwealth service

    One of my favorite SSA stories is about General Wainwright's. He wrapped his in an oiled cloth and hid it in a hollow tree before he went into captivity on Corregidor. He went and got it after the war. It was a little corroded but not too bad and is now in the museum at West Point. I have some pictures of it around somewhere that I'll try to find.

    Colt Single Action Army - Wikipedia
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  7. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    This interesting thread sent me off on an entirely unproductive hunt for an article or passage from a book--one that I know that I've read previously--that details Monty's habit of not carrying a personal weapon (although he had one) and melded into a description of what weapons were on hand with his personal staff and in his (various) staff cars.

    It may have been penned by (or merely cite) one of his liaison officers.

    Does this ring a bell with anybody?
  8. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Ike didn't either during WWII. He did carry a .41 derringer in the Philippians that he used to shoot rats while he was pondering world affairs in the outhouse.

    Remington Model 95 - Wikipedia
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  9. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Here is a very good article on Patton and pistols. He was a bona fide pistol expert, and a champion fencer as well (he designed the last sabre issued to the US Army). Besides the weapons already mentioned here, he also owned at different times a .38 Colt Detective Special, a .32 Colt Pocket Model automatic, and a .380 Remington automatic.

    George S. Patton: Guns That Made Him Great
  10. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    I wonder if this has any bearing from his experience in 1914? Apparently he went off to war with his officer's sword rather than the regulation pistol and found himself facing a large German armed with a rifle and bayonet. It was at this time that young Monty realised that he had no proper training in how to actually use a sword in anger so he kicked his opponent in a very tender place and took him prisoner.
  11. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Philippian Islands? Are they anywhere near the Colossian Islands and the Ephesian Archipelago?
  12. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Crap. I spell that wrong every time!
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  13. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Didn't St Paul write a letter to some of the inhabitants?
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  14. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Here's Wainwright's at West Point from 2011. I didn't get a picture of the info card though. That's his West Point sword in the picture, which he hid in the same tree.

    Last edited: May 18, 2020
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  15. WiltsHistory

    WiltsHistory Member

    Interesting point, I'd never really clocked that with Monty - I suppose too taken in by his beret, two capbadges and battledress! I think it was part of Patton's image just as much as personal protection. Perhaps Monty thought there were enough guns kicking about to protect him!
  16. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    There is quite a lot about Patton and his firearms online, and virtually nothing about Montgomery and his. At least one firearm can be directly traced to him, however, a .380 Colt 1908 Pocket Model manufactured in 1915 which is held by the IWM. The gun was manufactured in 1915 and Montgomery bought it from a private dealer. The IWM doesn't say so directly, but given the manufacturing date I'd imagine he got it during the Great War.

    Colt M1908 Pocket Hammerless (Model M)

    As to Patton...well, he certainly didn't carry handguns in the field just to bolster his image. He was a highly accomplished handgun shooter who had won prizes in international competition, this was something he enjoyed and was proud of. He had used pistols in action, and very successfully too. Anyway, for Patton the image WAS the man, and vice-versa; that was both his strength and his weakness. He was many things, but fake wasn't one of them.
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  17. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    His initial combat experience came on May 14, 1916 in what would become the first motorized attack in the history of U.S. warfare. A force under his command of ten soldiers and two civilian guides with the 6th Infantry in three Dodge touring cars surprised three of Villa's men during a foraging expedition, killing Julio Cárdenas and two of his guards.[46][52] It was not clear if Patton personally killed any of the men, but he was known to have wounded all three.[53] The incident garnered Patton both Pershing's good favor and widespread media attention as a "bandit killer".

    George S. Patton - Wikipedia

    He strapped the bodies to his car and brought them back to General Pershing.
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  18. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

  19. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    The Known and Lesser Known Carry Guns of George S. Patton ::

    The Walther PPK (Polizei Pistole Kurz) never was standard but THE sidearm of choice for any higher ranking Wehrmacht officer who keeps something on himself
    Last edited: May 19, 2020

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