Hi all, i'm a newbie and need info and some things cleared up please. I recently came across my late Grandads contact details for correspondence i.e. letters from home, these read; Pte Loughran 14340103 Essex Regiment 5th Batt X Coy or X Goy (couldn't make out the writing) 11 PLN MEF Talking to my Grandad over the years he mentioned Palastine and North Africa in general...However, when my Grandmother applied for his medals many years later what came back were the following; The Italy Star The France and Germany Star The 1939-45 Star The defence medal Please could anyone tell me why no Africa Star? Regards David
He may served in North Africa but after the fighting had finished. Best you apply for his Service Records that will explain the whens & wheres. Welcome to the forum by the way.
David why no Africa Star....easy one ..his number states that he was inducted late in 1942 - did his 6 weeks with the General Service Corp - would be 1943 by now - then probably six months Infantry training - june/ july by now - MIGHT have gone to Algiers as general reinforcement for a few days - AFTER that campaign was over - NO AFRICA STAR - then shipped out to Sicily to join 5th (Globetrotter Division ) until Anzio - then Palestine and finally France /Germany till the finish... so 1939/45 Star - Italy Star - F & G star - Defence (six months UK ) - 1939/45 MEDAL - willing to put 50 cents on that when his records finally come through Cheers
The answer appears to be here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_Infantry_Division_(India) So no service in North Africa during combat operations there. All the best Andreas
5th Essex joined 5th Div in August 44. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Infantry_Division_%28United_Kingdom%29#Second_World_War I could check more accurately in Div history but they'd finished in Italy by then & were refitting in Middle East before heading off for Germany in 1945. That is off top of head & am open to being picked up on error. Too late to get book , off to bed soon.
Andreas your wiki details are for the 2/5th Essex - not 5th Essex - who served with 5th Globetrotters from Sicily - small difference MIGHT be that - according to his Address of MEF - he may have joined 5th Div in Palestine as they made their was from there to Siciliy - Italy and F & G ...i would however say he landed at Algiers and Cap Matifou before heading for Sicily- the Med was open at that time so cheaper than around the Cape.... 8th Indian Div was alongside the Canadians at the Liri Valley and again after the Gothic line - they never went near Germany.... Cheers
David There is something about Africa Star entitlement here that you might find of interest http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/27306-no-africa-star-why-update-help-with-records-received/ and here http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/29858-medals-for-service-in-italy-and-north-africa/ Ron
Wrong Tom, as said in post #5 5 Essex joined 5th Div in August 1944 replacing 2 R Innsk Fus. So they would have gone to Germany in 1945 with them. 1/5th Essex were in 8th Indian Div in Italy until March 44 http://www.ourstory.info/library/4-ww2/Tiger/triumphs01.html see also this. 8th Ind Div. 1st/5th Battalion The Essex Regiment (up to March 1944) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_Regiment#Second_World_War_.281939-1945.29
Owen ...and where exactly was 5th Div in August '44....back in Palestine as they had been at Anzio until May/ June '44....or does this explain the address of the G'father of MEF ... ?....both 1/5th and 2/5th served in 8th IndianDiv .... and when did they get to Italy from Tunisia in time for Cassino et al ... ?....no question that 5th Div made their way to Germany early '45 .....FROM Palestine via Italy....so where did the g'father serve in 1943 AFTER he finished training having joined in late '42...?...therein lies the missing bit which only the service records will prove... Cheers
Hi everyone....what can I say? Thank you so much for your time and knowledge in helping me in my enquiries. On the suggestion of you guys I'm going to apply to the relevant people for his service record and will post the results. Once again big thanks to Tom, Ron, Owen, and Andreas..... Kind Regards, David.
5TH ((1/5th) ESSEX REGIMENT 1st June 1939 the 5th Battalion Essex Regiment was divided into the 1/5th (West) Battalion and the 2/5th (East) Battalion. In June/ July 1942 the 2/5th Essex in action at Deir-el-Shein, marked the finish of the 2/5th Essex. There were no rein-forcements available with which to rebuild the Battalion, and was placed into suspended animation. The1/5th Battalion Essex Regiment on the 5th May 1943 was redesignated the "5th Battalion The Essex Regiment T.A." The 5th Essex had served in the middle East for twenty-five months, practically all of which time had been spent east of the Suez Canal it sailed from Alexandria as part of the 19th Infantry Brigade, 8th Indian Division and landed at Taranto in September 1943. The 5th Essex became part of the 13th Infantry Brigade, 5th British Ifantry Division on 6th of July 1944 at Qassassin in Egypt. The 5th Essex and the 5th Division as part of "Operation Goldflake" The move of 1st Canadian Corps from Italy to North West Europe, February and March 1945 arriveing in Belgium on the 7th of March. Regards Roger ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
ROGER That answers many questions - that action of June / July '42 was the infamous Gazala Gallop back to El Alamein The period East of Egypt would be in Palestine as the Indian Divs had been involved in the Syrian debacle Landing at Taranto in Sept '43 was the invasion of Italy when both the 1st Canadians and the 5th British landed at Reggio from Messina- with main 78th at Bari After Anzio and ROME - 5th Div went back to Egypt along with 56th and 78 divs - returning to Italy later than those two as they joined in the Gothic Line battles The Canadian1st Corps left on Goldflake late Jan/ Feb '45......the time that the G'father joined 5th Essex is still unknown - and the lack of the Africa Star... Cheers
David 11763 See attached part of page 4 of the 5th Essex "Nominal Roll of Personnel NOT Suitable for Service in the FAR EAST" dated June 1945, the pesonnel with a line drawn through are on the list of personnel Suitable for Service in the Far East. The14534658 Lucas F H below your Grandfather is my Father-in-law, sadley no longer with us.
RWM 1948 Odd sort of list with so many younger members - i.e. those with 142 -3 -4 -5 numbers as born in 1924 - 26 - early 20's - unsuitable for service in India / Burma et al Cheers
