Hi, I'm really just here researching my great-uncle, Lieutenant FJ Rory De Sales La Terriere, of the Royal Scots Greys (2nd Dragoons), who was killed in Tilburg, Holland on yesterdays date (29th October) 1944. Given that we know so little (basically nothing) about him, as he had no children, being just 21 years old when he died, I thought that his anniversary yesterday would be a good time to start looking more into his life, and so here's where I intend to start. Seems like a very interesting and helpful site!
Hello and welcome. His CWGC record details here, (always good to put in the link): Lieutenant FRANCIS JAMES RHODERICK DE SALES LATERRIERE 256521, Royal Scots Greys (2nd Dragoons), Royal Armoured Corps who died on 29 October 1944 Remembered with honour LIER BELGIAN MILITARY CEMETERY Grave/Memorial Reference: V.A.5. CWGC :: Casualty Details You can apply for copy of his service records, see here: Ministry of Defence | Contact us | Service Records Enquiries You need to establish who his next of kin is. If it's you, go ahead and fill in the form; if he has a sibling who is still alive then you need to get their consent. If you can't get that, then the general enquiry form is the one to use though it's only for limited disclosure. It'll cost you £30 and a bit of a wait. Good luck with your research, Diane
I'm wondering if he was injured and died of wounds later. That's quite a way back from Tilburg to be buried.
I'm wondering if he was injured and died of wounds later. That's quite a way back from Tilburg to be buried. Yes Rob you could be right, whilst not conclusive by any means, it states on the CWGC Cemetery details: Burials were made in Lier Belgian Military Cemetery from a military hospital set up in a school at Lier after the liberation of the town on 4 September 1944; the wounded brought to that hospital included casualties from the fighting around Arnhem in the Netherlands. In case you are wondering quite what Rob and I are on about, Died of Wounds complicates research a little in respect of circumstances surrounding his fate. But, as your uncle was an officer this should make it a little easier to find out some information. Normally the War Diaries mention only officers by name, although this isn't always the case. This just means that should you get access to a War Diary (or a official History) for his unit, you would have to work your way back from the date of death to find a mention of him. In the case of Other Ranks, this isn't usually possible unless a date of wounding is known.
Rob not all that unusual for people to be buried miles away from where they fell - some bodies were transported from Medenine to El Alamein - way over 1200 miles - others from Sicily show up on the panels at Cassino - others from Trasimeno buried at Assisi etc - depended on when the cemetery's were completed - some of our lads were buried with the Canadians at Riccione in Oct '44 - then when the Coriano Ridge cemetery was completed in 1954 - they were all moved there... Cheers
Here's one way to find out: The War diary for Royal Scots Greys (2 Dragoons), Covering dates Feb.- Dec. 1944 can be found at National Archives Kew under Catalogue No. WO 171/842 Detecting your browser settings
The reason why I was interested about being buried so far back at Lier, is that burials of men lost in the immediate area of Tiburg were made in Tilburg (Gilzebaan) Cemetery from September 1944 onwards. Hence the feeling that he might have died of wounds received.
Thanks for your help, that is an interesting question, i always assumed based on what our family have said, that he died quite immediately, but perhaps this was not the case. Hopefully the war diary will show up something. In any event, i do have one further question which may seem a little ignorant of how this all worked but maybe some of you could correct me. I always thought it unusual that a time of such destruction, emergency, and catastrophe, and indeed perhaps contempt for human life, that the bodies of these soldiers were buried in such an organised and dedicated way. Do these graves really, in your opinion, usually contain the bodies of the men that they are said to, or are they often mere commemorations of the men? Again, apologies for perhaps a silly question, i really am new to this whole area of research
Not a silly question. First off, your g. uncle is buried next to where there was a hospital. This would have been organised enough.* Others were buried near where they fell, often by comrades, their field graves then being located later and their remains moved to an already established cemetery, or to a new one which would required bodies to be concentrated from surrounding areas. Some would be discovered later, and indeed some of the fallen from both wars are still found / identified today. As to 'mere commemorations', I suppose whilst not impossible, there are Memorials for those whose bodies could either not be found, or identified. Many cemeteries contain headstones marked simply A Soldier of the 1939-45 war, Known unto God. The names of the missing should appear on memorials - Groesbeek would be the one in Holland. Teams of men worked very hard in this difficult area to ensure that collection, identification and proper burial took place. This is not to say that every removal and reburial was done in the nearest cemetery. There are occasions where a body was moved to perhaps an 'illogical' location, miles from comrades who fell at the same time, as Tom has alluded to. *In any case Rob and I are only guessing about Died of Wounds - get the war diary and hopefully something of his fate will be there. Family stories aren't always necessarily wrong, and although some can be distorted over time, sometimes they prove to be perfectly correct.
