My Grandfather - 2374761 Driver Edward Les HONESS, RCS: 1941-46, service records

Greetings all. I am doing some research on my Grandfather's war history having been able to access his records in Kew just before Christmas. What I hope are the significant bits are attached. After joining up in 1941 (is it possible to tell whether he volunteered or got called up?) he was given role of Driver Mechanic DII. Having gone out to the Middle East he then seems to have spent quite a bit of the 1942 in Hospital with bronchitis after which his fitness was downgraded to B1 and his records marked 'base only'.
He seems to have flitted at regular intervals between Air Formation Signals 5,6 and 9 and one time was moved to PAIForce which I gather was located in Iraq/Iran. However from oral family history we assumed he never went much further east than Cairo and spent much of his timer as a driver slowly going Westwards and then up through Italy until the end of the war. His records do seem to bear that out.
I do wonder whether all this dodging about between different bits of the RCS was because they weren't quite sure what to do with the poor chap, given his medical problems. He - of course - never really talked about any of his time in the Army but his daughter - my Mum - did know he'd been a driver. She was convinced he drove Monty around based on the logic that 1)Dad was in N Africa. 2)Monty was in N Africa. 3)Dad was a driver. 4)Monty would have needed a driver. 5)Therefore.... Those of you who are on the ball may spot a logical inconsistency in that thought process .
If anyone can translate more of the hieroglyphics on Grandpa's war records than I can I'd be most grateful. And on any steers on where to put some more flesh on the bones. I am aware of the Lord and Watson book about RCS Unit Histories which seems like an unexpensive starting point. Finally, is there anything else at Kew or at the RCS Museum that would be of any help, do you think?
Thanks in advance for any help, information or advice anyone on this forum can give.

 

Welcome aboard.

The RCS became a large corps, so individuals rarely appear in online research - unless they got a medal, wounded and died.

I checked whether a subject’s name or number have appeared here before - they had not. I have added his Service Number 2374761 as it is a very useful identifier.

If you search online with his unit(s) if known or later, so for example: "XXth Anti-Tank Regiment" site:ww2talk.com that may identify threads mentioning them, at a glance without adding much. If you drop the 'th' more may be found.

I only saw 32 Army Tank Brigade, plus two AFS or A.F.S. MEF is Middle East Forces (not the Western Desert, so Palestine, Syria, Lebanon and Cyprus), CMF is Central Mediterranean Forces (the name appears when the war shifted to Italy) and yes PAI Force was in Iraq and Iran (then known as Persia).

Searching the National Archives for the subject or unit(s) can identify those who were awarded honours / medals and the existence of War Diaries – which rarely mention individuals soldiers. They do give context and details of activity.

Some research tips next via PM and good luck.

 

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

From my reading of the B103 - as he left 8th Army for PAI Force 18/10/42 he didn’t strictly qualify for the 8th Army Clasp shown as an award on a later page of the B103 as he didn’t fulfil the criteria -

The 8th Army Clasp was awarded for service with the Eighth Army between 23 October 1942 and 12 May 1943 inclusive. An Arabic numeral "8" is worn on the ribbon bar in undress to denote the award of this clasp.

His Campaign Medal application form - or an endorsement elsewhere on his papers - may clarify matters.

Steve

 

Thanks David (and for the PM and for adding Service No.)

Yes, I appreciate that I am unlikely to find any personal mentions of old Gramps. Tbh I am more interested in where his units were and what he/they might have been doing rather than anything more Honess specific! I'd missed the 32 Army Tank Brigade reference which I now see is on the B102 but doesn't appear to be on the service and casualty record. Although the service and casualty record does appear to list at various times 5, 6 & 9 A.F.s. - unless I have misinterpreted this (which is quite possible).
Thanks also for the explanation about the MEF, so it looks as though before he ended up in Italy he wasn't in the W.Desert but in Palestine, Cyprus and/or wherever!

 

Thanks Steve. There was no Campaign Medal app. form available with his papers at Kew - well, none that I could see anyway. So quite why he got the clasp if he wasn't strictly eligible will probably remain a mystery as the only reference I've got about it is on the B103. One of his other Grandson's holds ELH's medals so I will check to see what they've actually got and whether it is there!

 

Hi,

The application forms aren’t held with the service record. There is usually a post war Army Medal Office stamp - indicating the medals were issued - on the Statement of Service form in the service record file.

The Army Medal Office retained the application forms and they were put online by Forces War Records site last November. Forum member JohnG505 may be able to find it for you and post it here.

Steve

 

Medal Card


Kyle

 

Woohoo! Thanks Kyle . To aid my learning how did you find that?!

 

Got a friend to download it from Fold3


Kyle

 

That’s a good result for you thanks to Mr Jinks.

Several million medal applications were made post war so it’s not unusual for the odd “admin error” to be made. 8th Army clasp issued to “celebrate” the post El Alamein advances while those members of 8th Army who took part in the substantial advances in the “yo yo desert war” of earlier years weren’t awarded the clasp.

Steve

EDIT TO ADD

He likely sailed to Egypt on Convoy WS16 (became WS16A) - see attached link

WS (Winston Specials) Convoys in WW2 - 1942 Sailings.

 

If you want further official confirmation regarding his medals/clasps, you can also contact the Medal Office. It doesn’t cost anything and they’re usually very quick to respond. Here are the forms:

Ministry of Defence medal form

In the “I wish to apply for” box, I wrote “Full Entitlement Only”.

Mind you, looks like Kyle’s already done you proud.

Welcome aboard by the way, all the best with your research.

 

Thanks for all the responses so far on this. I've been away so am only returning to follow up some of your suggestions now.

One thing confuses me. If my Grandfather was in PAI - although according to his records he would have been at the 'base' (wherever that was) - however did he get from there to Italy? I'd always assumed before I joined this (very useful and informative) site), that he'd some how lumbered his way along the N African coast through Egypt & Libya etc in support of the 8th Army or whoever, but if he was in PAI presumably he ended up there by other means?

 

I am not aware when he moved from PAI Force (HQ Baghdad from memory) to Italy. It all depends on the date. After the invasion of Sicily IIRC the threat from the Lufwaffe and U-Boats declined, so ships moved more easily. Until demobilization most Other Ranks appear to have moved by land from Iraq to Palestine ports and onward by ship.

 

32 Army Tk Bde was in Tobruk for all of its existence, and he was posted to hospital just in time to avoid being captured when Tobruk fell on 20 June 42.

All the best

Andreas

 

Hi,

Page 3 of the posted B103 shows he was posted back to ME from Paiforce in March 1943 with 9 AFS then in August 1943 he is posted to 6 AFS and then on to BNAF in December 1943 - still with 6AFS. You’d need to have sight of the Unit War Diaries to see the route taken.

The “shorthand” clerks used on B103 to (mis)describe troops in Sicily and Italy from mid 1943 to the end of the war varied between CMF, BNAF and AAI - Allied Armies Italy.

Steve

 

Thanks for this Steve. Looks like another visit to Kew for me is in order! I have found this Browse records of other archives | The National Archives which seems to be where I can find War Diaries for various AFS sections, but they all seem to start at some period in 1943. Are there any lurking around that go back into 1942?

 

See Post 2 in: 6 AFS Air Formation Signals, Middle East and Italy ?War Diary References For a general clue. In particular that the full name for AFS is: Air Formation Signals and is found abbreviated as Air Fmn. Sigs.

G AFS get a mention in: Royal Signals 1942 to 1946 - Fred Brackstone

 

FYI Screaming J Hawkins

Just to correct my assertion of your grandfather’s non entitlement to the 8th Army clasp in the above post.

On a closer look at the B103 prior to making my post on the topic yesterday I noticed he returned to the strength of 8th Army in March 1943 so he was correctly awarded the 8th Army clasp.

Apologies for my earlier error.

Steve