I am trying to build a history of my dads exploits in the RAF between 1936 and 1946. He started off as Aircraft hand GD and remustered to Clerk GD (0)(1) in 1942. I have his service record from the MOD,but this seems to be very brief and throws up more questions than answers. He has the following medals; 1939/45 Star. Africa Star with North Africa clasp. France+Germany Star. Aircrew Europe Star and Air Gunners brevet. However,there is absolulety nothing on his record to show any Aircrew training/Sqn nos or Flying history. Although he told my mum that he had flown in Wellingtons and Lancasters. At RAF Debden,Sept 1939 he went with 60 Wing to France,then 60 Wing CC,then 14GRP. Returning to the UK 3/4 days before Dunkirk. June 1940-Dec 1941 time at HQ Fgt Cmd,HQ 9Grp,Salmesbury,Kirkwall(Grimsetter) and Sumburgh. Dec 1941-Dec 1944 off to Egypt. 201Grp and 234 Wing,29 sector,Mersa Matruh,HQ 338 Wing Mediterranen Coastal Airforce Fighter Wing. Dec 1944 to 1946 Pembroke Dock. Like most men and women who went through that period,he would say nothing about it. When asked directly I always got "I will tell you one day". Unfortunately that did not happen. I guess my main questions are: Did/does anybody out there know my dad? How did he receive the Aircrew Europe Star? How did he receive the Air Gunners brevet ? What did you do in the war dad ? Any help/suggestions will be gratefully received. Thank you
Your father was a prewar recruit, in those days you could if you wanted fly as an air gunner, a lot of these lower ranked airman went on to become designated air gunners. Often these airmen flew without giving their names to anyone so if the plane was shot down no one knew they were on board, and as for flying in wellingtons and lancasters he could have just done that. At some stage when they designated Air Gunners as a flying grew position they will have handed out the brevets to those who had flown, prior to this I beleive that some had a "winged bullet" to denote they where air gunners. For some it was also used as a stepping stone to becoming pilots Hope this helps
EF - can I suggest that you scan the records you have and add them to this thread. Some of the experts on here may spot something you missed, or seeing it all together may put it in context. Ditto with a photo of the medals and any other documents you may have. Photos are always good too, or even letters to/from him while he was away. I hope with all of the info in front of us that we can find a definitive answer for you - most everything else will be speculative. Cheers and good luck in your research. Dave
OK - speculation time. Is it possible that you are seeing the medal collections of two different people? A brother perhaps? - where his medals were passed to your dad for safe-keeping and they all got mixed in together?? On the face of it, there is no entitlement to both the France+Germany Star & the Aircrew Europe Star. Basically if you had one then the other was issued as a clasp instead of a separate medal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_Germany_Star British uniform regulations stipulated that neither the Atlantic Star nor the Air Crew Europe Star would be awarded to a recipient of the France and Germany Star. The medal was awarded for operational service in France, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Germany from 6 June 1944 (D-Day) to 8 May 1945. The qualifying sea area is the North Sea south of a line from the Firth of Forth to Kristiansand (South), in the English Channel and in the Bay of Biscay east of longitude 6° west, provided such service was directly in support of land operations in France, Belgium, the Netherlands or Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Crew_Europe_Star Two months operational flying was required between 3 September 1939 and 5 June 1944 in order to qualify. The 1939-1945 Star must have been earned before commencing qualifying service for the Air Crew Europe Star. From 6 June 1944 (D-Day), operational flying over Europe qualified aircrew for the France and Germany Star. British uniform regulations stipulated that neither the Atlantic Star nor the France and Germany Star would be awarded to a recipient of the Air Crew Europe Star. Subsequent entitlement to the Atlantic Star or the France and Germany Star was denoted by the award of the appropriate clasp to the Air Crew Europe Star. Clasps Regulations only allow one clasp to be worn with the Star. When the ribbon is worn alone a silver rosette ribbon emblem is worn to denote the award of a clasp. Atlantic - Awarded to those who subsequently became entitled to the Atlantic Star. France and Germany - Awarded to those who subsequently became entitled to the France and Germany Star.
Thank you for that.................very interesting ! It just so happens that I have 2 medals for dads brother (553248 SGT J D Perrett ,KIA on 23/24 Jan 1943 whilst in Lancaster ED386 from RAF Wickenby) and they are the Defence Medal and 39/45 Medal . I have recently sent off a claim for his Bomber Command Clasp but there is no medal to mount it on ! So it could quite possibly (Aircrew Europe) belong to Jack. Although it is mounted on Dads lot. I have no letters or diaries to refer to apart from a hand written note book which Dad entitled "A diary of the principal events in the Libyan Campaign 1940/41/42" In which he states "all entries in this diary are absolute facts.From the beginning of General Davells campaign". I have read through this and I would suggest it is written in typical Ops/Hq speak. I have a very dogged eared press cutting showing an Ops/HQ planning room which Mum thinks came from Picture Post,but not sure when,probably 41/42. It is entitled "The men who watch the front line...Rommels planes are silent for the moment.The skies are empty.At any moment they will start a new assault". This also appeared in a French magazine I assume at the same time. Additionally I have a few 3" x 2" B+W photos,not brilliant quality;no dates,but assume North Africa 1940/41/42....they are of;; Crashed ME110..Scili Hamisl ? Crashed ME109 Crashed JU87 in flames Sid and Sherty,two cockneys posing outside a tent.. Camp at El Rus Camp at Mersa Matruh Marble Arch ? I will scan Dads record and Photograph his medals over the next couple of days and technology skills permitting will post them.
It may not be your fault, but it's hard to help with so little to go on. You now know that your father enlisted before 1939, from his 535882 Service Number. We now know he had a brother Sgt Jack Dale Perrett from Gateacre Lancashire, son of Patricia L Perrett PERRETT, JACK DALE. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Air Gnr.. Service No: 553248. Date of Death: 23/01/1943. Age: 21. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force. 12 Sqdn. Grave Reference: 2. C. 13. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Patricia L. Perrett, of Gateacre, Lancashire. from that I find.... Name: Jack D Perrett. Mother's Maiden Surname: Dale. Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1922 Registration District: Totnes, Devonshire. Volume: 5b. Page: 229 (hence the "Dale" middle name) A Family Tree shows born 13 January in Brixham, so he died just 10 days after his 21st birthday....) Jacks Service Number is 553000 series so he enlisted later than William, was he following big brothers footsteps? Jack was the mid upper gunner on Lanc Mk I ED346 (possibly 386 - hard to read) crewed by Australian DIMMOCK, THOMAS FRANK. Rank: Flight Sergeant. Service No: 405300. Date of Death: 23/01/1943. Age: 21. Regiment/Service: Royal Australian Air Force. (attached 12 Squadron RAF) Grave Reference: 2. C. 7. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Thomas and Kitty Irene Dimmock, of Yeronga, Queensland, Australia. CAMPBELL, GORDON ERNEST. Rank: Flight Sergeant. Trade: Nav. Service No: R/85722. Date of Death: 23/01/1943. Age: 21. Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force. 12 (R.A.F.) Sqdn Grave Reference: 2. C. 8. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of John Murray Campbell and Beatrice Campbell, of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. PERCIVAL, ROY. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Flt. Engr. Service No: 1016163. Date of Death: 23/01/1943. Age: 22. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 12 Sqdn. Grave Reference: 2. C. 11. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Ernest and May Percival, of Barrow-in-Furness. Lancashire. DAWES, HENRY DENNIS. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Air Bomber. Service No: 659048. Date of Death: 23/01/1943. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force. 12 Sqdn. Grave Reference: 2. C. 10. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY. BAXTER, MALCOLM WILFRED. Rank: Flying Officer. Trade: W.Op./Air Gnr. Service No: 50894. Date of Death: 23/01/1943. Age: 21 Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 12 Sqdn. Grave Reference: 2. C. 9. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Gordon Baxter, and of Ivy Annie Baxter, of Chester. BLAGDEN, ARTHUR SANDERSON. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Air Gnr. Service No: 944213. Date of Death: 23/01/1943. Age: 22. Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 12 Sqdn. Grave Reference: 2. C. 12. Cemetery: RHEINBERG WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Arthur and Mary Hannah Blagden, of Dore, Yorkshire. At least there is consolation that the crew remain together in adjacent graves, and were able to be individually identified. Their Lancaster had 1 x 4,000 lb "cookie" and over 1,000 4 lb incendiaries, so presumably they had bombed and turned for home when shot down, as with those incendiaries still aboard the aircraft would have burnt out. The CWGC may be able to tell you where the crew were originally buried, which may help locate the crash site. They do seem to be a very young crew! That produces a marriage between Patricia Lillian Dale and William Cumming Perrett who died 1926 (hence no mention on CWGC entry). You haven't yet told us what "W" stands for.... His brother is therefore your William Peter Leslie Perrett. Dave B has suggested you have a mix of medals between William and Jack. Jack was an air gunner, so would have an A/G brevet. It's likely your Dad didn't, as involved in repairing damaged aircraft (hence his interest in crashed German aircraft). You have photos of crashed German aircraft. Putting those scanned copies up would perhaps help identify a location for those crashes and when, using the codes, colours and insignia on the fuelage, underside of wings or tail. So an aviation expert might just say your Dad was there after X Date when t was shot down. Obviously the Stuka seems very soon after it crashed as it's still in flames but any details of aircraft codes might just help. The spelling of "Sherty" is unusual, doesn't seem to be someone called Shirtliffe for example, as you wouldn't change the "i" to an "e"... I can't see a likely surname starting "Shert_ _ _ _" but it may have some significance. (perhaps just a very grumpy chap!) "Sid" is just too generic. Hopefully the above information may help you to sort out whose medals belong where. Please try and get the photos of the German aircraft on here as there may be more clues our experts will understand.
Everything you write I think is correct. Jack was originally buried at Municipal Cemetary in Munchem Gladbach. Yes my Dads first name was William. I have quickly scanned the photos,but as i said they are not of particularly good quality hopefully you will find them attached. "Beginning to see the wood from the trees now"
Thanks, toffee! My Dad was born in L'pool and I've always had an affinity with Everton rather than (cough, spit) but never known why, perhaps it's in the genes! Although registered at 144a Brownlow Street (the "polite" address for the Workhouse) gran was living in Jenkinson Street. That doesn't strike me as Everton territory, but that's how it is with me. I don't think I've got you very much further, but setting it out sometimes helps others crack a problem. Thanks for the photos. There are some who say they can work out the day of the crash from such photos. Have you noticed how, in so many photos, vital identification is hidden behind some gurning individual? Bombers where the aircraft letter is important, always has someone or something in the way. It's so frequent, it's almost deliberately done just to frustrate people 70 years later!! I hope you can now get things clarified to help understand Dad's war a little better.
Thanks very much for everyones help/input....I think I now understand the scenario. I have managed to loook more closely at Dads record and I can see that he never received the Aircrew Europe Star.I feel a little bit of guilt because when I joined the RAF I pressured him into claiming his medals and to wear them with pride (he had become somewhat distant from his war service),but he eventually claimed them in 1965 and I organised the mounting for him. So it would appear that when he gave them to me for mounting he also had Jacks medals and confusion then took over.However they where mounted by a Military Tailor so you would have thought they would have questioned the collection.Anyway,shall not tell Mum,as she would probably be upset.......but to me the mystery is solved.Apart from dad,the whole family was born and bred in Liverpool. I had to support the Blues because everyone supported the other team !Once again, many thanks for all the help.Regards Peter
