My 1939 British Army Helmet.

Discussion in 'WW2 Militaria' started by PrivatePike, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. PrivatePike

    PrivatePike Member

    Hi all,

    Just thought I would put up a few pictures of a helmet I bought from a militaria shop in Glasgow about two years ago.

    It is marked 1939 BMB as you can see in the pictures, I was told that it is all original paintwork etc. The only thing that is different is the chin strap is from a 1943 helmet? Obviously that wee shoe lace thing holding it together is not from WW2 ha.

    Am I correct in saying this is a MK1 brodie helmet and could have possibly been used at the likes of Dunkirk etc ? If anyone could share their thoughts on that, would be most welcome.

    This is the only helmet I have in my small collection of WW2 items.

    Jack.

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  2. ceolredmonger

    ceolredmonger Member

    That is a nice looking 'Helmet MkII' in remarkably good condition - especially the liner. Are there any markings on the helmet shell - between a rivet and the brim usually?
    No criticism of you, however the term 'brodie' is a silly collector's term which has no historical precedence (a chap called Brodie designed an early helmet which contributed to the design).
     
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  3. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    It actually does have historical precedence. Read the report on helmets and body armour produced for the War Office in 1917 by Bashford Dean. Brodie developed the first helmet issued in WW1 and the main difference between it an the later versions was that initially the first made and issued in 1916 were completely round - later in 1917 this was modified to make it slightly oval and this continued into WW2 and beyond. Bashford Dean's report tracks the development of the Allied and German helmets and does comparisons on their effectiveness at protecting the head and also on the ease or otherwise of manufacture. He later published a book based on his report. He certainly credits Brodie as the principal designer
     
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  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Paintwork is quite difficult to assess, especially when taken close-up with a flash. They did vary. There should indeed be a lace to adjust the lining...Yours looks like a replacement.

    Liners can be replaced. You have the early large screw...what type of nut is on the other end ?

    As has been mentioned, there is usually a manufacturer's and date stamp on the rim, often close to a chinstrap fixing. BMB was Briggs Motor Bodies who were coachbuilders for Ford. They produced both shells and liners. The round crown pad on a BMB liner indicates that it is from earlier 1939 rather than later.

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  5. PrivatePike

    PrivatePike Member

    Thank you all for your input of knowledge!

    I have taken some more pictures, which I have attached. Thanks for pointing out the bolt bit, I never even noticed that, I’ve tried my best to get a good shot of it without the flash which you will see, you can make out it also saying “BMB” but looks like some sort of number also? Maybe a unique serial number? It looks vary fade though, did they mark these first then paint them maybe?

    The two of the paintwork are without flash, if that’s any better. I also got another of the pad there.

    Where do you think this was actually used? Is it possible to be a Dunkirk one?

    Jack.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It's really impossible to attach provenance to this type of item. Apparently 'most' of the early MkII production didn't go to the army as they already had supplies of MkI*s...The modified Great War helmets...Yours has the early plain nut but the screw is grey which was a colour used on some home front helmets...

    There are no statistics for how many troops came home with their helmets from France in 1940...probably most did...but BEF photos seem to show a very matt finish which was probably Khaki Green No.3...

    In all honesty, most MkII helmets that turn up in good condition were probably Home Guard or civilian duty...As I understand it, the HG were not called upon to hand in their kit when they were disbanded so helmets and respirators were often left hanging on the back of the coalhouse door...

    It would look better for display as a 1939 item with a chinstrap MkII on it...
     
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  7. PrivatePike

    PrivatePike Member

    Okay thanks for that. I understand it is impossible to tell where it actually was used.

    Can I just ask one more thing, how are you guys telling that it is MK2? The ad when I bought it said MK1? I tried looking it up but I can't seem to tell difference.

    Jack.
     
  8. ceolredmonger

    ceolredmonger Member

    It's a Mk.II made by BMB in Dagenham. Rich has nailed it. I would also add that most military service helmets were subject to a number of orders through the war requiring repainting with textured additives (e.g. sawdust or sand) as an anti reflective precaution. There are exceptions, unissued examples held in reserve and I have seen an undoubted Naval issue used on board ship. Yours looks factory fresh so could be reserve or civilian duty.
     
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  9. ceolredmonger

    ceolredmonger Member

    Read the report on helmets and body armour produced for the War Office in 1917 by Bashford Dean. Brodie developed the first helmet issued in WW1 and the main difference between it an the later versions was that initially the first made and issued in 1916 were completely round......He later published a book based on his report. He certainly credits Brodie as the principal designer[/QUOTE]

    So it isn't a 'Brodie'. I am familiar with the WO files on development of the Mk.I helmet including Bashford Dean's report. Brodie's helmet was considered inadequate - Its ballistic qualities were considered poor, the liner unsuitable and the production process not suitable for mass production ('deep draw pressing'). The WO committee drew up a completely new spec. Whilst having a similar appearence -both are based on the medieval 'chapeau der fer' design designed to protect the neck and carotoid artery with the brim leaving full mobility (flawed when hoizontal projectiles are encountered), it's not a 'Brodie'.
     
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