Murdered? ATS Private

Further photo




Regards,

Graeme

 

Your very welcome and thank you very much again guys for all your efforts in trying to find out Doris's story , posting the pictures and
still digging for answers , appreciate it all .

Thank you all for your service . Very best Wishes to all , Julie and Family.

 

The medals of Private Doris Gertrude Dicken, ATS

Good luck with any further research Julie.



Cheers

Geoff

 

Thank You very much for doing that Geoff , appreciate it

Cheers Julie

 

Hi Geoff

Do you know where the medals are actually held??

TD

 

No TD!

Just did some photo work for Julie!

Cheers

Geoff

 

Hi TD
TOM2 has all Doris's medals in a display case , he is Thomas Dicken my Dads cousin ,
it was Tom's Dad , Doris's brother whom she had just posted the birthday card to, she was shot just after.

In one news paper article The Observer, they said she had just returned from a holiday in the Holy Land, was it normal during WW2 to go on vacation
especially to the Holy Land ? not sure were the news paper got that story from ?

Have a good week all, Cheers Julie .

 

Julie, you should try writing to the MOD office in Glasgow to see if they can find Dolly's ATS record. Not all of them exist, but if your lucky it could be the best £30 you spend. If they don't find the record, they return the £30. It could shed some light on the Holy Land trip. Thanks again for sharing all the photos and information. Cheers Maria

 

At that time both Palestine and Egypt were British-administered territories, with army transport going back and forth from time to time. Doris would be entitled to leave, and it would have been possible to cadge a lift and spend a few days in Palestine, staying in ATS quarters.

Not your full-package "holiday", but a bit of a break and a chance to see a few sights.

 

Gotta say it.......you people are amazing, truly amazing......your combined abilities regarding researching & information- gathering are stunning. Well done to you all, you deserve the admiration of all of us. Needless to say I'm jealous, and wish that I possessed even a smidgin of your talent for digging through the archives & records.
Well done again!!

 

Above is from Routine Order 98, September 1943, 28 (Maori) Battalion. You can find it here: https://www.28maoribattalion.org.nz/memory/maori-battalion-diary-september-1943

I know this is an old thread but stumbled across this which might be interesting for some. Seems to indicate both the murdered were attached to the Combined Services Interrogation Centre, GHQ Middle East Force. Not sure what 5IO company is, perhaps intelligence?
Cheers

 

Chris2nzef's image does not appear so is reproduced below:



It came from: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/sites/default/files/documents/28mb/ro98.pdf Dated 17/9/1943 (so five days after the murder) and the unit was @ Maadi Camp.

It shows both the dead were attached to Combined Services Detailed Interrogation Centre CSDIC. Their role:

From: Combined Services Detailed Interrogation Centre - Wikipedia and a little more on: PRISONERS OF WAR SECTION | The National Archives Note the CSDIC in Egypt is not mentioned. Their 1943 papers are in: Index of reports from CSDIC Middle East (ME), Allied Force Headquarters (AFHQ) and Malta | The National Archives

CSDIC was @ Ma'adi Camp:

From a quite detailed, humourous account: BBC - WW2 People's War - An Interrogator's Life (Part 1)

Dr Helen Fry (WW2 Historian and author):

From: https://x.com/DrHelenFry/status/1854468248235864438

The importance of CSDIC:

From (most of the article cited is behind a ££ wall): https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230512146_6

(An example of the 'downside' to their work: https://www.militaryintelligencemuseum.org/captain-chamier ).

I have PM'd the two relatives, Jewel (Julie) and Tom2 (neither has logged in for nearly 10yrs). Plus graeme. To have a look at the Kiwi update.

 

Morning,

Sorry about delay relying, was on holiday.

Excellent detective work by all involved, many thanks for posting,

She served in 510 Company.

Regards,

Graeme

 

Hello Graeme.

Doris was in 501 Company ATS at the time of her death, and she never served in 510 Company ATS..

The "Routine Order No. 98" document that forum member "Chris2nzef" posted in pdf format within his post #51 above is incorrect as far as Doris' Company number is concerned.

Doris's role whilst attached to CSDIC was not "to interrogate detainees, defectors, and prisoners of war who were known or suspected to be working for Nazi Germany and Japan."

I would disregard at least 95% of post #52. It is nigh on completely inaccurate with regard to Doris and Tom Wood and does not apply to either of them and "their role" at CSDIC.

Doris was a mess orderly with 501 Company ATS, and was carrying out her duties as a mess orderly up to and including the night she was murdered. Please see images below (full document and close-ups). It clearly lists Doris as 501 Company.







I will PM you tomorrow with some further evidence. It's of a very personal nature and because of that I will not post it here in the general forum.

Kind regards, always remember, never forget,

Jim.

 

Morning,

You are absolutely correct, 501st Company. I have this in my research. I think I put 510 Company on the thread as I was swayed by 'S10' thinking the S was a 5 !!!

Many thanks for the documents etc.

Regards,

Graeme

 

Good morning Graeme,

I have sent you a PM/Private conversation.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.