Mr Phil Grinton

Discussion in 'US Units' started by Sandra Almeida, May 9, 2024.

  1. WAIT WAIT WAIT
    A morale and entertainment unit? Was it just for the North? Did they visit different areas? I have searched Fold3, NARA, including St Louis, several American military libraries and could not uncover anything about the 17th!
     
  2. Richard Anderson

    Richard Anderson Well-Known Member

    The Special Services Company provided “recreational and informational services to troops serving in a theater of operations”. Its functions included live shows, cinemas, libraries, dance bands, parties, and athletic events. War Department, FM 28-105 The Special Service Company, (Washington, D.C.: War Department, 5 January 1944), 1.

    Note that "Special" was a flexible term to the U.S. Army. There were also Engineer Special Service regiments and battalions, and Special Staff Sections, but they had nothing to do with entertainment.Note also they were different from the United Services Organization - the USO. The USO was a non-military, government funded civilian organization that provided wide-ranging services to soldiers and sailors in the U.S. and overseas. In the ETOUSA the military end of it were 22 USO Units comprised of one officer and two enlisted men who provided technical support, liaison, and drivers for USO shows in Britain and later on the Continent.

    In the ETOUSA the Special Services Company was assigned in various ways. As of 1 June 1944, there were 14 Special Services Companies in the ETOUSA. One was "Colored", the 17th, and was attached to the USAAF, but responsible for entertaining all black units in Britain. Of the 13 white Special Services Companies, one was assigned to the Western Base Section, eight to the Forward Echelon, Communications Zone, and the remaining four to the Advance Section, Communications Zone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
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  3. OK, so the way to go to find them, is to pursue news about events in the Hull area? I am sure that if there was an event, locals would be joining the party (British would not share the 'segregation' idea).
     
  4. Well, yeah, he must be, but, still, many people on their 80s are active and he must have a world of military knowledge.
    Thank you for your good wishes, just walking the journey here.
     
  5. I am a bit partial to American military in Britain, for several reasons, and I pretty much spend most of my daily available hours searching and learning.
    And you, Sir, have an outstanding knowledge and a very special way of explaining things to an old bat.
    Now, I have been very curious about this:
    - If Black troops were the ones arriving first to prepare, built and assemble, did this also happen in Newcastle/Northumberland with the
    22 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Group, Headquarters, 321 Fighter Control Squadron and 573 Signal Aircraft Warning Battalion, HQ & HQ Co, and also in Haltwhistle with the 250 Field Artillery Battalion, Battery C and the 250 Field Artillery Battalion, Service Battery?
    - and in the case of North Burton, ETO Prisoner of War Encl No 8, Enclosure 8B, European Theatre of Ops Prisoner of War Encl No 8 (-), where they there (noticed the minus, indicating that part could be elsewhere) to help with prisoners? Why the difference of 8 and 8B? And why is the European Theatre of Ops Prisoner of War Encl No 6 in Haltwhistle and not closer to the others?
    If those Black troops were seen camping in Chester-le-Street, were they part of a particular battalion?

    Any explanation would be very, very well received, because NARA is fed up with me and National Archives hates my guts already!!!!!!
     
  6. Richard Anderson

    Richard Anderson Well-Known Member

    Not all black troops were construction troops. That was the role of the Engineer General Service Regiment and various engineer construction battalions. Not all were black, most were white. They also did Signal construction, but it was mostly running wire and cables, putting up telephone exchanges and the like.

    The bulk of the black units were general labor service, either Quartermaster, hauling stores about, acting as stevedores at the ports, or similar work, plus driving trucks. Ordnance units were almost all ammunition handlers.

    The prisoner of war enclosures were transit camps for the expected load of prisoners, where they could be registered, interrogated, divided between officers and men, and the like. Most were, of course, nearly empty on D-Day. The number+letter camps were sub-camps under the same commanding officer...the reason for them could be as simple as a road or railroad ran through the area and split the suitable camp area into two sections, but there could be other reasons. If 8B had a different camp commandant and administration, it likely would have been numbered separately.The locations of all camps tended to be arbitrary - Haltwhistle may simply have had better facilities access to support the camp, but often it was because "that looks like a likely spot, we'll build it there" reasons. :D

    Units of course moved, especially the construction engineers as they built the encampments, depots, and airfields for the arriving US forces. So it would be difficult to say who might have been at Chester-le-Street unless it shows up in a Station List. Mind you, the Station List frequently named the closest location to where the unit Headquarters was, but some units were spread in different cantonments in a general area. And, as I mentioned before, Americans loved to butcher British place names and would often spell them as they heard them rather than how they appeared on a map. I have puzzled out most of them for June 1944, but cannot be sure I have them all correct.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  7. Yes, it does, thank you very much.
    It also explains why I could not find any Black troop in any of these:
    HQ Eastern Base Section, Detachment C, Provost Marshal Northumberland
    22 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Group, HQ & HQ Battery Northumberland QZ7383
    10 - 22 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Group, Headquarters Northumberland QZ7383
    638 95 - 321 Fighter Control Squadron Northumberland QZ7383
    638 95 - 573 Signal Aircraft Warning Battalion, HQ & HQ Co Northumberland QZ7383
    22 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Group, Headquarters Northumberland QZ7383
    321 Fighter Control Squadron Northumberland QZ7383
    573 Signal Aircraft Warning Battalion, HQ & HQ Co Northumberland QZ7383
    Haltwhistle
    250 Field Artillery Battalion, Battery C Northumberland QZ1080
    European Theatre of Ops Prisoner of War Encl No 6 Northumberland QZ1080
    513 33 - 440 Prisoner of War Processing Company Northumberland (QZ1080?) QZ1985
    North Shields
    32 10 Hospital Train Northumberland QZ8388 QZ0388

    I tried several combinations, to check if there had been any Black troops, at any point, in any of the above, but all the records (the ones that were not destroyed, at least) just show White military and nothing related to African-American.
    The only Black troops in those areas were part of the colonies, like the Indian Seamen.
     
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  8. Richard Anderson

    Richard Anderson Well-Known Member

    No, there would be no black troops in any of those units because they were all white units. You will only find black troop in "Colored" units, which Grinton denoted with the asterisk. I'm not sure why he did that, it only creates confusion.
     
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  9. I loved it because it makes my life so much easier you open the doc and just search the '*' and bam! There they are!
     
  10. Here is the statement from our contributor in Chester-le-Street: 'We were in the small wood between Waldridge Fell and Edmondsley village where the American searchlight and radar unit huts were built. No trace of them remain, only an overgrown patch of concrete. It was here Tom remembered meeting the group of African American soldiers. Tom did not mention them in my previous interviews with him for the booklet Radar Warriors but the visit to the site jogged his memory, thought it most likely these African American soldiers were there as a working party preparing the campsite before his battalion arrived and were then involved in decommissioning the campsite after his battalion left Durham to take part in the Normandy landings of June 1944. The American's unit left Waldridge quickly in complete secrecy and without warning. They were there one day and gone the next.'
     
  11. Richard Anderson

    Richard Anderson Well-Known Member

    Almost certainly from that the black Americans were indeed a "working party" from an Engineer General Service regiment or from a Signal Corps Construction Battalion. Those were scattered about in construction groups and it is likely impossible to say now which unit it was. My best guess would be the two Signal Construction (Aviation) Battalions, but that would be a guess only.

    Candidates and locations as of 1 June are:

    1317th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) (-) – Longwood, Hants
    1st Bn – Burley, Hants
    HQ & HQ Det, 2d Bn – Corfe Mullin, Dors
    Co D – Burley, Hants
    Co E – Wimborne Minster, Dorset
    Co F – Corfe Mullen
    3196th QM Sv Co (Cld) – Highclere, Hants (not QM Sv Co were attached as additional labor)
    3225th QM Sv Co (Cld) – Maiden Newton, Dorset
    383d Engr Bn (Sep) (Cld) (-) – Fleet, Dorset
    Co A – Broadmayne, Dorset
    Co B – Portisham, Dors
    Co C – Frampton, Dors
    Co D – Wyke Regis, Dors

    1313th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) (-) – Callington, Corn
    HQ & HQ Det, 1st Bn – Crafthole, Corn
    Co A – Crownhill, Devon
    Co B – Mt Edgecombe, Dev
    Co C – Crafthole, Corn
    HQ & HQ Det, 2d Bn – Plympton, Dev
    Co D – Plympton, Dev
    Co E – Brixton, Dev
    Co F – Halwell, Dev
    3197th QM Sv Co (Cld) – Saltram Park, Devon
    3224th QM Sv Co (Cld) – Buckfastleigh, Devon
    3227th QM Sv Co (Cld) – St Day, Corn

    356th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) (-) – Herringswell, Suffolk
    Co F – Bidston, Ches

    366th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Monmouth, Mon

    374th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Holford, Somerset

    389th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Ashburton, Devon

    95th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Builth Wells, Brecon

    354th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Cowden Copse, Kent

    364th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Higham Heath, Suffolk

    365th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Camp Barton Stacey, Andover, Hants

    374th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Downton, Wilts

    377th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Chacewater, Corn

    388th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Fladbury Camp, Worcs

    390th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) (-) – Blithfield Hall, Staffs
    HQ & HQ Det, 2d Bn – Rugeley, Staffs

    393d Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Moretonhampstead, Devon
    1310th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) (-) – Carmarthen, Carmarthen
    2d Bn (-) – Oswestry, Shrops
    Co F – Penally, Pembroke

    1323d Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) – Arundel Castle, Sussex

    375th Engr Gen Sv Regt (Cld) (-) – Newton Abbot, Devon
    HQ & HQ Det, 1st Bn – Totnes, Dev
    Co A – Churston Ferrers, Devon
    Co B – Dartmouth, Dev
    Co C – Totnes, Dev
    Co D – Paignton, Dev
    Co E – Totnes, Dev
    Co F – Torquay, Dev

    447th Sig Con Bn (Av) (Cld) – Langton Herring, Dors

    459th Sig Cons Bn (Av) (Cld) – St Audries Camp, Som

    29th Sig Cons Bn (Cld) (-) – Trebartha, Corn
    Co A – Lifton, Dev
    Co B – Culmstock, Dev
    259th Sig H Cons Co (Cld) – Camelford, Corn
    268th Sig H Cons Co (Cld) – Trebartha, Corn

    38th Sig Cons Bn (Cld) – Frome, Somerset

    41st Sig Cons Bn (Cld) – Downhouse, Dorset

    257th Sig H Cons Co (Cld) – Stretton-on-Dunsmore, War
    267th Sig H Cons Co (Cld) – Chrishall, Essex
    269th Sig H Cons Co (Cld) - Launceston, Corn
    270th Sig H Cons Co (Cld) – Crookston, Renfrew
    275th Sig H Cons Co (Cld) – Haselbury, Somerset

    40th Sig Cons Bn (Cld) – Eynsham Park, Oxon
     
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  12. [QUOTE="[/QUOTE]
    Richard, I need a huge favour, because it seems I cannot uncover it, and nobody, not even a person from NARA, was able to help.
    How can I find some of the military that were part of:
    Hull - Yorkshire, East Riding
    17 Special Service Company, 3 Platoon *
    498 Port Battalion (Transportation Corps), 254 Port Co */ HQ & HQ Det */ 255 PC */ 256 Port Company * /257 Port Company *
    856 Quartermaster Fumigation & Bath Company (M) (-) *, 1517 Quartermaster Truck Battalion (-), HQ & HQ Det */1517 Quartermaster Truck Battalion, 2024 QM Trk Co */1517 Quartermaster Truck Battalion, Medical Det *
    Potters Hill - Yorkshire, West Riding
    1515 Quartermaster Truck Bn, 1938 QM Truck Co (-) */1516 Quartermaster Truck Bn, 1950 QM Truck Co, Det A *
    Wortley - Yorkshire, West Riding
    1912 (known as the 65th?) Ordnance Ammunition Company */1961 Ordnance Depot Company, Detachment A */1962 Ordnance Depot Company (*?)/2104 Quartermaster Truck Company (Aviation) *
    Penistone - Yorkshire, West Riding
    364 Engineer General Service Regt, 2 Bn, Company D *
    Holmes, Yorkshire, East Riding
    41 Signal Construction Battalion, Company A *

    Would you, by any chance, have a way of learning some names?
    Really grateful,
    Sandra
     
  13. Richard Anderson

    Richard Anderson Well-Known Member

    The only way you can do that is by requesting Morning Reports for individual companies. You have to go through a private researcher to do that.
     
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  14. thank you
     
  15. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    I was in touch with Phil Grinton twenty years ago and he sent me some of the Station Lists, including a list of black units in the UK. He was very helpful. The documents he sent me have his mail address, email and phone number - at the time. if you want to follow up probably best by PM.
     
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  16. Hi, I did have his email, he replied to my 1st email, but when I asked for more information regarding how he had obtained the information and if he had any other records I could use, never got another reply.
     

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