Re Post #18. 15 on red identifies the Bren Carrier as belonging to 1 Borders; the junior battalion in 4 Infantry Brigade, The serial for 1 Borders was 1859 the corresponding bars were grey/white/grey. The photo dates from October 1939 soon after the battalion arrived in France which is why the bars are still displayed. Re Post #20. As for the double horizontal and vertical bars of 2nd Grenadier Guards; could they denote different sections of the carrier platoon? It seems I was wrong in describing them as a Roman "II".
Yes, grey/white/grey I think, I'll check and post more. I agree. A carrier from the same unit has this number and these bars (the third of which is below grass level): http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=44398&stc=1&d=1296224255 The number looks like four digits ending in 59 which would give upper and lower bars of grey and a central bar of white. Notice how the background to the 15 (red I agree) looks so different between the previous photographic image and this one. Andrew
As for the double horizontal and vertical bars of 2nd Grenadier Guards; could they denote different sections of the carrier platoon? Possibly. Perhaps there are some other pictures that might help. Andrew
Definitely the Belgian border in post #11 Bod. Rewdco and I have dodged the cars on that level crossing at Herseaux trying to sight-up 'then and nows' Likely to be 4 RNF too as it's where their much photographed sidecar outfits came through. Here we are... Jan
Jan This is a great picture. You guys did very well to get the right angle. It's very difficult to do (and even more difficult in amongst the traffic I am sure). Who are the re-enactors? Also what type are the single machines in the original picture? Andrew
Andrew, Thanks for the compliment! The solo motorcycles are BSA M20's. Here's another one with my friend Lex Schmidt in the "now" picture: This picture is a few hundred meters further towards the French border, with Lex and his friends in the Norton Big 4: Jan
I don't want to hijack this thread but here's another "then and now" from Herseaux, at the border between France and Belgium: Jan
Jan Thanks for these shots. I haven't seen most of your 1940 pictures before although I have seen many others of the same scenes. The colour pictures really remind me that WW2 was not fought in black and white. Andrew
Superb Then & Nows there. I haven't seen them until now. Seconded ! I stopped looking in these threads as I couldn't really contribute anything to them.
Thats great information LondonNik , I'm very interested in the 4th Battalion Green Howards actions in France ( my uncles battalion KIA 29.5.40 Ypres and also our local battalion) so will be looking out for 5Oth Div aos 12 vehicles.
Nik, thanks very much for those excerpts. Fascinating reading and it moves the discussion forward most helpfully. The way that it is written suggests that at this early stage, things were rather being decided as they went along. It looks from this document as if Lex Schmidt has chosen the correct colour for his Norton combination. My only reservation is that the photos of 4 RNF at Herseaux (posted by Rewdco with his 'then & nows') don't seem to suggest black. If the colour of the AoS plate is compared with the 'TT' formation sign then rather than the black of the outer design, it looks comparable to the red letters. There is no doubt that some of the HQ units which were originally intended to display black signs did change during the early part of 1940. The I Corps booklet has an addendum stating that CRE should use blue in place of black and I know from the preserved markings on my motorcycle that the blue background was indeed used for HQ RE 2 Div.
Nick It has taken me a while to respond to this one. Like Rich I find it hard to believe that the AoS colour in all those photographs is black, although your evidence here is quite clear. Just for the record, did you see the date when the document was issued in 1939? Andrew
