Monty's Moonlight / Artificial Daylight Attack 17th Sept. 1944

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by von Poop, Apr 16, 2006.

  1. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    A Mate (Bod) is becoming all intrigued by the Use of 'Monty's moonlight', i.e. Shining searchlights onto the clouds to give a useful twilight for night activities.

    Anyone got any details of how and when it could be successfully used or how often the idea was deployed?
    Do any of the Veterans remember what it looked like or have any experience of it?

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  2. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    A Mate (Bod) is becoming all intrigued by the Use of 'Monty's moonlight', i.e. Shining searchlights onto the clouds to give a useful twilight for night activities.

    Anyone got any details of how and when it could be successfully used or how often the idea was deployed?
    Do any of the Veterans remember what it looked like or have any experience of it?

    Cheers,
    Adam.

    It has been used for many years, it was even used in Vietnam and korea.

    it was very successful as it flooded the area with light. The Museum at Overloon has one of the searchlights used during the battle for the moonlight

    The idea of bouncing light off the clouds came from the use of aldis lamps. I seem to remember seeing a Naval siginal which said that alsdis could be used to send up to confidential documents when the cloud base was not below a certain level.
     
  3. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Mostly used in Holland searchlights were set on a low trajectory. even without clouds, it was useful for night operations. Just before I was wounded and I had the half track stuck in tank mud. I went to one of these unites to get a pull out, so I could get back with the battle orders.

    There I met another man from my home town, he filled me with army tea and naval rum before getting a big Scammel with a winch on the front to pull my half track out. So the war could carry on!

    The moonlight did not cover as wide an area as you would think.
    Sapper
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I have heard Major-General G.I. Thomas 43rd Div hand a hand in inventing it.

    Essame's "The 43rd Wessex Division" history page 10.

    "The technique of 'Monty's Moonlight' ......owed much to his inventive brain."
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The moonlight did not cover as wide an area as you would think.
    Sapper
    so could it be placed quite locally over a particular field or building?
     
  6. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sure, though when I say a small area I mean when in a vehicle travelling
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    What was the quality of light like then Sapper? did it seem natural or what? I'd imagine quite eerie but maybe you were all used to flares and the like disturbing the night?
    (by the way, Love the new Avatar picture, you look like you're about to break the bank at Monte Carlo.)
     
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  9. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Quote from Camerons History re the attack on Schijndel Holland. "It was a grim night, when nothing seemed to go right. The Battalion was facing parachutist, who, it was soon learnt did not give in lightly. The country was bare of cover, while the Artificial Moonlight seemed to give the enemy the advantage. Darkness on this occasion was not a friend".
     
  10. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

  11. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The searchlights? bright enough to be able to see exactly where you were going,Had a down side it also cast shadows, sometimes your own. glad to yuo like the picture I was about 25/6 then, 81 now "Slightly different"
     
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Article here about Monty's moonlight.Photo of the Monty's moonlight and a CDL vehicle.
    http://home.tiscali.nl/hgmkuip/blerick/cdl_story_lowther.html

    This has been bothering me.
    I thought Monty's moonlight and CDL were different things??
    The first being a form of illumination and the second being, if used as intended, a form of attack/deception???
    confused now.
    Surely CDL couldnt easily bounce off clouds, purely from the arrangement within the vehicle?
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I posted that link because it had the picture of Monty's Moonlight and was an interesting article I which I thought others may like to see.
    I don't think the two are really connected.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    :) That's cool Owen, good article, I was just beginning to doubt my recollection.
    So, unrelated? yes.
     
  15. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    I remember seeing a TV programme about using searchlights and Prisms, by, I think before the war the gentleman was a magician etc on stage, (can't for the life of me remember his name) where they used searchlights in such a way as to alter the position of the Suez canal as seen from the air. Would this be CDL?
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Masklyn?
    Not CDL though,(Canal Defence Lights) Codename bearing no relation to the intended use. It was a system of delivering extremely intense bursts of light at the enemy from modified tanks, (Valentines???) in order to blind and confuse. Though it impressed in demonstrations I don't think it was used 'properly' in action, I seem to remember it's inventor got very frustrated about this after all the work that had been done.
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  18. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Light has it advantages and disadvantages.
    While taking part in the assault crossing of the Escaut Canal (Market Garden op) a house was on fire on the enemy side of the canal. It served to, illuminate the scene in front.. but at one AM at night...it also had its downside, for when you turned away from the leaping flames from the burning house, you could not see a damned thing. On that pitch black night your own shadow cast a black void, so that you could not see where you were going.
    Sapper
     
  19. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    My late father mentioned being involved in the first artificial light experiment and I have kindly had the date given to me by Trooper Tom Canning as being on the 17th September 1944.

    Tom witnessed this action whilst being transfered to hospital after being severely wounded.

    I have looked for information and the book I purchase, The Fourth Division 1939 to 1945 by Hugh Williamson only mentions this incident in passing.

    Whilst checking the internet I came across this link with information supplied by two of our Forum members.

    http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/WH...Epi-i020b.html

    Can anyone recommend a book, other than the one shown on the site, or other website with information on this operation?

    My father seemed to think that this was not very successful as the lights silhouetted them to the enemy and I believe the Fourth Div suffered.

    I am led to believe that the technique was repeated at other times and perfected to provide good results.

    (This post was cut and pasted from the D-Day Dodgers part of this forum)

    Regards
    Tom
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Tom,

    For your info, hopefully this may help you find what your looking for.

    Canal Defence Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Canal Defence Light (CDL) was a British "secret weapon" of the Second World War.
    It was based upon the use of a powerful carbon-arc searchlight to dazzle and confuse enemy troops. A demonstration had shown that the use of a vehicle mounted searchlight both disoriented the units facing it and masked activities behind the searchlight

    .

    I think this is the same or similiar thing to what you mentioned above.

    Cheers
    Andy not Phil ;)
     

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