Hi I hope someone can help, my father was with the RAMC in India 1942 - 1946, I've come across some photo's of a Military Hospital by a lighthouse and I was hoping someone might be able to identify the area. I know from the unit's diaries that he was in Trichinopoly (spelling via diaries), Tamil Nadu for a while and I have been scouring lighthouses along the coast, some of which look quite similar, but with over 70 years of coastal change including tsunami's and old lighthouses replaced by newer versions I am having a little trouble. Members have been absolutely wonderful in the past pointing me in the right direction. Many thanks
Have you tried sending the photos to the DGLL - mentioning the Tiruchirappalli connection as most likely pointing to their Chennai region ? Old hands there may recognise it straight away and, even if not, must have access to a helpful photo archive ... HTH, Steve Map from DGLL's website:
Hi Steve I did find the DGLL site and had picked out about 6 possibilities and looked at them on Google Earth, but I hadn't seen the map, that is super thank you, it didn't occur to me to e-mail them with the photo's, so that will be my next step, I did ponder about visiting the RAMC museum to ask when I had time. Thank you so much for your help. Kind regards Jenny
PS Jenny, I got to thinking a bit more scientifically last night. Without all the evidence to hand, I'm wondering which and why so few possibilities attracted your attention. Having now analysed the shadows to realise we're talking about a westerly shore, perhaps you should be looking up into the Cochin region - or even further north given the sun shining down, in the approach road shot, from an angle of ~30° left of and somewhere behind the camera. Are these shots perhaps dated for us to better estimate latitude according to time of year ? On the other hand, I'm having real trouble squaring the general lushness of India's westerly seaboard with the more arid sandy conditions depicted by your photos ! If you do manage to get a list of WW2 Indian military hospitals out of the RAMC, BTW, perhaps you'd be so good as to go that bit further to please get & share one here for the whole country ... as I'm probably not alone in marginally seeking such info about more northerly states (personally for Chhindwara & Mehgaon re one of my late uncles repeatedly hospitalised for reasons not covered by his all-too-sketchy RE/RA service record). Incidentally, another of my uncles, like his father before him in WW1, did serve in the RAMC but aboard a hospital ship - most remarkably, though, having somehow wangled deselection as a Bevin Boy against the odds. Cheers, Steve Less informative map from DGLL's website:
Hi Steve Unfortunately there are no dates or places to go with the photo's, at first I thought of Egypt and Sudan, Dad joined up in 1923 and spent nearly 5 years in both places but I couldn't see anything similar so my attention turned to India. He landed in Bombay Jan 42 (after resting following Dunkirk) then onto Deolali, Rawalpindi and Poona until he went down to Trichinopoly from August 42 to Jan 43, then there is a gap until April 44 with the diaries when it was onto Burma, he was at 47 Reception Camp Jan 45 which I think was in Chittagong. I'm still deciphering his service record and the diaries don't cover all the time he was there. I tended to focus on Madras because of the references to I,M.H. and he was mentioned in the diaries, Sgt Cooke, I've attached three pages from them. As you can see Cholera, Malaria and Dysentery were rife, which might be the main reason why your Uncle was hospitalised. I will most certainly share any information I can find. I think joining the RAMC was vastly preferable to being down the mines (and only recently receiving acknowledgement for it) The terrain hadn't occurred to me, and you certainly have a point there, I've sent an e-mail to Chennai region. Kind regards Jenny
Sorry Jenny, Only intending to use my late uncle as a stock example, I oversimplified - family confirm malaria but that's only part of a bigger psychological mystery about a secret adoption back in Blighty. And the last thing I want, however worthy a cause, is to highjack your thread with my back-story diggings aimed at uniting elderly folk with half-blood kin they've never known before too long ... It's a pity about your lack of dating evidence as I've since calculated the sun may be observed at 60° meridian altitude, at least once a year, anywhere from 6½° to 53½° N/S of the equator - a huge band of uncertainty from, in the northern hemisphere, roughly Colombo up as far as Liverpool (where, even though feasible, I'd hardly expect to see anyone fishing with a pith helmet on his bonce ) ! That band, of course, includes all of India, most of Sudan and all of Egypt but I can't help note that its 30° mean falls north of anywhere on the Indian coastline but coincidentally runs right through Cairo ... Whereas I'd agree on discounting Sudan, with only a short eastern coast onto the Red Sea, parts of Egypt's Mediterranean coast face NW (around Alexandria) and even locally directly W (at Abu Qir) ... so maybe worth a second look, as a year-round candidate, even though Wikipedia rather implausibly dismisses Egypt as only having one lighthouse (at Port Said) ? I presume you're using GE's photo links to look sideways at lighthouses but, as you've admitted having not really thought about terrain, are you also looking out for those diagnostic flat rocks just off-shore. And then I'm wondering how diagnostic that skinny pyramidic steel roadside pylon may be in contrast to what looks like a wooden telegraph pole further right - simply reflecting a local shortage of sufficiently long timber poles, more generally typical of the country as a whole or imported (possibly from Oz*) ? In short, question everything like why was "MILITARY HOSPITAL" only painted in English across the entrance - because the locals could all read it or because the Empire/Raj expected them to ? You've already demonstrated your imagination, by talking of potential tsunami damage, so it shouldn't be too great a step for you to really think outside the proverbial box to hopefully solve this. Dunramblin' for now, Steve * Vaguely-similar Wikipedia article example from Darwin:
Hi Steve No worries, I don't mind at all, I find reading about other family exploits intriguing, I've been delving into my ancestry for about 8 years. The only reason I didn't send for Dad's service records until more recently was that I didn't have his service number and I had been told that he fibbed about his age when he joined up, our surname is more common that Smith or Jones apparently, it was only a chance remark regarding children born whilst their fathers were in the forces having the number on their birth certificates. I realised when I looked at Cochin district that I had already Google d them, some weren't the right shape, others were built later. My son suggested it might be England until I pointed out the guy in the pith helmet (I had seen some peculiar headgear amongst local fishermen though) One that interested me before I asked for help on the forum, was Nagapattinam, but seemed further away from shore that the photo, but the 2004 tsunami had hit there, it has two breakwaters. Another was by a river which once allowed shipping, but has silted up and hasn't been used since the 60's. As you say, I shouldn't discount Egypt, they don't seem as proud of them as they are in India (182 I think) and yes it is strange? (superior) to have the sign only in English, they were rioting in India in 1943 (I think) because they wanted the British out weren't they, I don't blame them in a way. Hopefully someone at the DGLL will tell me yes or no or possibly have no idea. Kind regards Jenny
Hi Steve I obviously wasn't asking the right question of Google I have found one in Alexandria, Ra's el-Teen Light which looks promising and it seems to be on a naval base, there is also an 1848 photo with very similar terrain, where has it been hiding during my search, ahhh Kind regards Jenny
Phew Jenny, Exactamundo I reckon ! Well I'm glad you beat me to it as I was just about to present my evidence for that to you ... * Postcards Africa Egypt - lighthouse - Delcampe.net has b&w views - some with it unpainted ! They're all from the seaward side featuring the same nearby cubic building as in your top photo * A GoogleEarth placemark - View attachment Alexandria lighthouse.kmz * A GoogleEarth screenshot identifying the approach road Even the range of buildings is still there either side of the old entrance arch And I can imagine the injured being ferried off the quayside ships to it Way to go girl, Steve PS: I forgot to add this link - The Great War and Dad: ALEXANDRIA 1916 from which: PPS: I too almost scored an own goal with Google - where I used an image seach to crack this. At first I simply searched for "Egypt" & "lighthouse" but, finding the results dominated by that wonder of the ancient world, I added "-Alexandria" - useful for revealing how many lighthouses Egypt really has around her shores but inadvertently hiding what we were really seeking. It was only my choosing to look closer at one of Delcampe's hand-drawn postcards that led me into their 'Aladdin's cave' with what I was seeking - nothing short of 'jammy' I reckon !
Hi Steve What super postcards they are too, I'm so glad you made me think again about Egypt, if I hadn't asked for help I would still be floundering around in India, its so nice to know people who are so willing to help. I think I asked Google if there were any lighthouses in Egypt whereas before I had put in the same as yourself, perhaps I had searched for so many of the things that Google finally caught on, the postcards certainly were a very 'jammy' find, and the extract that you have attached is very interesting reading, I did find quite a few WW2 stories regarding India and Burma compiled by the BBC 'Peoples War' a while back. Dad's brother was killed in Caen in 1944 and my Aunt remarried later to a guy who had been in the Chindits, needless to say he suffered terrible nightmares. I was surprised when Dad's service records arrived that only 1939 - 1945 was chronicled (to a certain extent), and just the red book for his pre-war service with a few dates. Once again thank you so very much for all your valuable help and the super links that you have included, I've got some very nice screenshots. My next quest will be getting in touch with the RAMC museum to see if they have a list of all the WW2 military hospitals in India to share with this forum and to also track were Dad was. With grateful thanks Jenny
Hi All, I'm writing an update for one of my Chindit officers and in his family documents it states that he was admitted to 40 I.S.S. Does anyone know what medical facility this refers to? Also, he was evacuated after Longcloth to No. 53 Indian General Hospital. I wondered where this was located. Going off to continue my re-write now. Many thanks in advance. Steve
Steve, Thought I had found where 53 Indian General Hospital was but no luck. But at least I know now who the Matron was. Coins & Medals: Principal Matron Ida Walden R.R.C O.B.E | Fellows Antiques
Your inkling is right. Some of its defenders had not been able to retreat to other positions on the ridge and instead withdrew toward Dimapur. Canvas water tanks on FSD and at the hospital on the 53rd Indian General Hospital Spur had been neither filled nor dug in to protect them from fire. There was a small spring on the northern side of Garrison Hill, but this could be reached only at night. The medical dressing stations were exposed to Japanese fire, and many wounded men were hit again, often more than once, even as awaited treatment. U (ii) | Operations & Codenames of WWII
