Memorial to 3 Brothers killed while serving with RAF : Surname Fish

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by ClankyPencil, Jul 30, 2016.

  1. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    I took the kids to Blackpool for a few days and while walking down one of the backstreets, i came across this small church with a memorial on the front dedicated to 3 brothers who all died while serving with the RAF during WW2.

    CWGC details:


    Rank: Corporal
    Service No: 568535
    Date of Death: 28/06/1941
    Age: 22
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force - 27 Sqdn.
    Grave Reference: 11. J. 21.
    Additional Information: Son of Joseph Herbert and Clara Jane Fish, of Blackpool, Lancashire., REGINALD ARNOLD


    Rank: Flight Sergeant
    Trade: Observer
    Service No: 1061133
    Date of Death: 28/08/1942
    Age: 35
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve - 142 Sqdn.
    Grave Reference: Coll. grave 4. A. 16-19.
    Additional Information: Son of Joseph Herbert and Clara Fish; husband of Megan Fish, of Bramhope, Yorkshire., ALLAN KILSHAW


    Rank: Sergeant
    Trade: Pilot
    Service No: 1383746
    Date of Death: 10/01/1943
    Age: 32
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve - 10 Sqdn.
    Grave Reference: Grave 94.
    Additional Information: Son of Joseph Herbert and Clara Jane Fish; husband of Monica Fish, of Blackpool, Lancashire., EDDIE

    Will add photos when i get a chance

    Edit: Photos added Fish Brothers (1).jpg Fish Brothers (2).jpg Fish Brothers (3).jpg
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
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  2. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Details of the above loss....

    27-28 August 1942

    142 Squadron
    Wellington IV Z1396 QT-B
    Op. Kassel

    Took off from Grimsby at 2042 hours. Crashed in the vicinity of Meppen, a town on the east bank of the Ems Kanal.


    F/S. A. Harker +
    F/S. A K. Fish +
    Sgt. R. Howat +
    Sgt. V J. Mackey +
    Sgt. A W. Waller +

    Source - RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol.3- W R. Chorley

    During the course of 1941 RAF Bomber Command visited Kassel Just once. 78 aircraft attacked the target which consisted of industry and transport. 64 tons of HE along with 18 tons of incendiaries were dropped
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  3. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Details of the above loss....

    9-10 January 1943

    10 Squadron
    Halifax II BB252 ZA-X
    Op. Gardening

    Took off from Melbourne at 1617 hours for operations in the Nectarines area (Frisian Islands) Crashed at 1815 hours near Het Balgon Schiermonnikoog.


    Sgt. E. Fish +
    Sgt. A. Smith +
    Sgt. C B. Fetherstonhaugh RCAF +
    Sgt. J W. Smith RCAF +
    Sgt. A W. Wilson RCAF +
    Sgt. M J. Boyle (Died on 15th January)
    Sgt. L C. King RCAF +

    Source - RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol.4- W R. Chorley
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  4. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    I've had a look at the above loss but to no avail. At the time 27 Squadron were operating with the Blenheim 1F in the Far East. I couldn't find a 27 Squadron aircraft loss on that day.

    Maybe someone can come up with something?
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  5. spidge


    With reference to the youngest of the three brothers, four RAF members were killed on this day and buried at Taukkyan War Cemetery, Myanmar (Burma)

    Noting the date, this would most likely have been accidental.,%20REGINALD%20ARNOLD,%20FRANCIS%20GERALD%20OLDFIELD,%20THOMAS%20HARRY%20WHITE,%20HOWARD%20WALLACE


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  6. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Following on from Geoff's post, all four of the blokes killed in June 1941 appear in Casualty Communique Number 75 (as reported in Flight magazine August 7 1941 - now in the Flight Global onlne archive).

    Their status is given as Killed on Active Service - so pretty much a work related accident, either in the air or on the ground.


    Rank: Corporal
    Service No: 568535
    Date of Death: 28/06/1941
    Age: 22
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force - 27 Sqdn.

    PS - the FLTLT appears to be Francis Gerard Box not Gerald
  7. spidge


    Where did the "Gerard" come up Dave? On the Casualty Communique?

    Only birth coming up in FreeBMD 1914 and 1917 is a Francis T. Box in Birmingham 1916.

    The parents were married in Kensington in 1901.

    Nothing else apparent. Too early for spouse maiden names.

    Maybe TD can assist with Ancestry.


  8. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Francis G O Box was born Brighton December Qtr 1915. Parents married March 1901.

    Mother's maiden name was Oldfield, the youngest daughter of the late Major-General E.J. Oldfield of Highfield, Winchester.

    There's also a John Box, born Abingdon December Qtr 1911, mother's maiden name Oldfield.

    Box Snr's grave marker has a few more hard to read names:
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  9. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    I just googled "BOX, FRANCIS" "RAF" & most of the hits were for "BOX, FRANCIS GERARD" in the Air Force lists as held in British / Scottish archives

    I only searched for him as being an officer I thought his cause of death would be relatively easy to ascertain - by the looks of the AF list entries he was a pre-war commissioning.

    (I can't attach anything at the moment)

    I just downloaded the 27SQN ORB and basically on the 28th of June 1941, nothing happened. What is extra baffling is that these four blokes are buried in Burma when the SQN was operating out of Butterworth, Kallang & Sambawang in Malaya - and as Geoff points out, this is 5 months before the war comes to the Far East.
  10. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

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  11. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Graham Warner's book on the Blenheim lists the following losses for 27 Sqn airframes. Some of the aircraft involved are illustrated in the LIFE images we’ve been discussing:

    L6667 – 4 Apr 41, spun into sea while doing aerobatics. Sqn Ldr Hacket, Flt Lt Mansel-Lewis (243 Sqn Buffalo pilot) and Sgt Beaman were all killed.

    L6632 – 28 Jun 41, dived into ground near Akyab, Flt Lt Box, FS Seaward, LAC Spratt and Cpl Fish (passenger) killed.
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  12. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron


    As someone who lost a brother in RAF Bomber Command I know all too well what the loss must have meant to the Fish family.

    To read of the loss of three sons in three successive years beggars belief and I shudder to think of the effect on the family as a whole.

    Thank you so much for drawing our attention to this terrible record.

    Lest we forget !

  13. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    Thanks All

    Some really good info posted.

    The church is a Seventh Day Adventist Church and is really small and resembles more of a scout hall than an actual church, with the houses either side of it being larger than it.

    Location wise its just south of the 'Manchester' pub, on a back street behind the sea front boarding houses (Dutchman Hotal/The Chimes on the Sea/Crystals on the Prom).

    Until i can get photos posted here is a link with location and a street view. (The church is the grey painted building sandwiched between the 2 houses on the left)
  14. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Indeed a terrible loss to the family.
    But why did all three join the RAF?
    Possibly influenced by their father's service as a seaman in ww1.

    1911 Census.

    Name: Joseph Herbert Fish
    Age in 1911: 30
    Estimated birth year: abt 1881
    Relation to Head: Head
    Gender: Male
    Birth Place: Preston, Lancashire, England
    Civil Parish: North Manchester
    Street address: 4 Granville Rd Crumpsall Manchester
    Marital Status: Married
    Occupation: Commercial Traveller Rubber Heals
    Registration district: Prestwich
    Registration District Number: 467
    Sub-registration district: Cheetham
    ED, institution, or vessel: 32
    Piece: 24202
    Household Members: Name Age
    Joseph Herbert Fish 30
    Clara Jane Fish 29
    Allan Kilshaw Fish 3
    Eddie Fish 11/12.

    Reginald would have been born in 1919.

    UK Registers of Seamen's services 1852-1928.

    Name: Joseph Herbert Fish
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 26 Jun 1880
    Birth Place: Preston, Lancs
    Service number: F38125
    First Service Date: 18 Sep 1917
    First Ship Served On: President II
    Last Service Date: 31 Mar 1918
    Last Ship Served On: Daedalus.
    Now this does not make any sense a seaman's sons joining the RAF. That's until you look at the ships he served on.

    President II and Daedalus were shore based establishments.
    The Royal Naval Air Service Central Training Establishment Cranwell was commissioned on 1 April 1916, under the command of Commodore Godfrey M. Paine.
    Cranwell later became known as HMS Daedalus. This was not strictly correct but arose because the officers and ratings of the Central Training Establishment at Cranwell were borne on the books of HMS Daedalus which was a hulk in the Medway and the nominal depot ship for all RNAS personnel serving on other stations. In addition to flying training and airship operations, a Boys' Training Wing was also established at Cranwell. Its task was to train Naval ratings as air mechanics and riggers.
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