Loyd carrier and 6-pdr amn stowage

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Gary Kennedy, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    I was wondering if anyone might know the ammunition stowage for a Loyd carrier with a 6-pdr anti-tank gun in the infantry arm? The best I've been able to conjure up via the web for a Loyd layout is what looks like four ammunition boxes, two on the left and two on the right, which raises the question of how many rounds each box contained; 4 or 6?

    RA and RCA layouts show a total of 24 rounds on each gun tower and 30 rounds in the accompanying Loyd, plus 24 rounds in the Tp Cdr's carrier and 204 in the Tp's 3-tonner. Overall that makes 96 rounds per gun in a four-gun Tp.

    Inf Bn and Recce Regt 6-pdr allowances (from Canadian sources) state 60 rounds per 6-pdr gun (45 AP and 15 HE). I've not seen anything in manuals or WEs that show a suggested stowage scheme for Atk Pls as to how many rounds per carrier and how many on their 15-cwts.

    Any assistance welcomed.


  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  3. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Yes, seen that thread, it was me wot started it :>

    Thanks, it was very helpful for Universal carriers, but we didn't look at Loyd carriers.


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  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Diagram says 6 per box.
    Loyd-Carrier-6pdr.jpg Loyd-Carrier-6pdr-2.jpg Carrierloyd.jpg
    Taken from Nigel Watson's superb Universal Carrier book/s (Was going to recommend again that anyone with a Carrier interest just buy them, but I fear the prices may now be a bit silly.)
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  5. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Ah, thank you! I think I'd seen that second diagram on the MLU forum, but without the detail of what's what. Looks like they squeezed an extra box into the carrier that wasn't towing a gun (possibly where the gun toolbox is shown on the second diagram) to make 30 rounds.

    I'll have to have a look for the book.


  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I thought gun toolbox swap too, assuming commander's machine was a tower, which would make sense
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  7. Trux

    Trux 21 AG


    I misread your question or would have answered earlier. I have:

    Anti tank platoon

    Carrier Universal
    Captain, driver mechanic

    Motorcycle 1
    Motorcycle 2
    captains orderly

    15cwt truck GS 1
    platoon serjeant, storeman, batman driver.
    Carries stores and 6pdr ammunition
    15cwt truck GS 2
    vehicle mechanic, fitter REME, driver batman
    Carries fitters stores and 6pdr ammunition

    Detachment 1
    Loyd carrier 1
    serjeant, 3 X gun numbers, driver mechanic
    Carries 24 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in 4 boxes
    Carries 2” mortar
    Tows 6pdr Anti tank gun

    Loyd carrier 2
    corporal, driver mechanic
    Carries 30 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in boxes plus gun shields
    Carries Bren gun and No2 cooker


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  8. Trackfrower

    Trackfrower Member

    43rd Recce had Lloyd carriers for Anti-tank tractors. Not very popular.
    Two got blown up by a mortar stonk, so they parked another there next day!

    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  9. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Thanks Mike, I think we're working from the same sources (WEs and Inf Training Part VI, the Atk Pl, Sep1943), which detail the organisation but don't, as far as I can see, offer anything on ammunition allowance. If the figure of 60 rounds per 6-pdr gun for Inf Bns and Recce Regts holds true then the 15-cwts in each unit would have to haul very different loads given their mixture of Loyds and guns. Same would apply to Motor Bns but I couldn't verify a figure for their 6-pdr amn, but would assume the same. It's just me being very anorak-y. Annoying thing is the info is there for the 3-in mortars, but not the Atk Pl.

  10. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Well for those who may have been intrigued, I've added the following to my confusion...

    Looks like there was a decreasing allocation of 6-pdr amn to guns in Inf and Mot Bns and Recce Regts during 1943-44. I don't think this was due to any form of shortage, I think it was simply found they didn't need quite as much as envisaged.

    Notes for the Canadian Recce Regt show they were authorised a whopping 190 rounds of 6-pdr per gun, with another 190 per gun in reserve, in the early part of 1943. That was subsequently reduced to a more restrained 72 rpg later in 1943 (total 432 AP and 144 HE for eight guns) and then down further to 60 rpg (360 AP and 120 HE, again for eight guns); this is corroborated by the Inf Bn which had 270 AP and 90 HE for its six guns.

    Along with the stowage scheme for the Loyd in the 6-pr towing role I've now received the scheme for the Loyd in the ammunition role. It is dated 10/09/43, so around the period the 6-pdr amn seems to have been scaled back for Inf units. The scheme shows a sizeable ten amn boxes so sufficient for 60 rounds in addition to the 24 carried by the gun tower.

    The series of changes to the 6-pr amn total may be the reason I've not seen an actual figure for what was carried by 15-cwt trucks, perhaps because it was in 'flux'.

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