Loss of Lancaster ME757 WS-O - 9 Sqn - 13 Aug 44

Greetings,

I am currentley researching the history of the members of the crew of Lancaster Mk 1 Serial ME 757 that was lost on a daylight raid over Brest on 13 August 1944.

The crew were:

EDWARDS, Charles Herbert
FS
Navigator
425626
RAAF

JOHNSON, Frederick Walter
Sgt
Flt Eng
1390712
RAFVR

McCONVILLE, Douglas William
FS
M/U Gnr
424110
RAAF

RELTON, Edward Harry Maxwell
Flt Lt
Pilot
138457
RAFVR

SCOTT, Cyril Thomas
FS
Wop/AG
428799
RAAF

SCOTT, John Keith
FS
Bomb Aimer
426166
RAAF

ANDREW, William Ronald
FS
Rear Gnr
24647
RAAF


I have manged to recieve some great help from the excellent Australian National archives on the RAAF crew, and their final resting places.
But to get some background, does anyone have any details of the aircraft, crew or previous missions? Or suggestions where I could look further?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards

Mark

 

These are the only operations I could find on Lost Bombers:

Delivered to 9 Squadron 23Apr44 ME757 took part in the following Key Operations: Prouville 24/25Jun44;
Culmont-Chalindrey 12/13Jun44;
Rilly-la-Montagne 31Jun44 (Daylight).

Cheers

Geoff

 

Any help to you? We would be interested in publishing your results as a page of honour on our website if you would like?
Kelvin

13.08.44
9
Lancaster I ME757 WS-O
832
Bardney
Brest
FLt E H M Relton
Crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas {Finistere}
Killed
Plougastel-Danoules Communal Cem
13.08.44
9
Lancaster I ME757 WS-O
832
Bardney
Brest
Sgt F W Johnson
Crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas {Finistere}
Killed
Plougastel-Danoules Communal Cem
13.08.44
9
Lancaster I ME757 WS-O
832
Bardney
Brest
FSgt C H Edwards RAAF
Crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas {Finistere}
Killed
Plougastel-Danoules Communal Cem
13.08.44
9
Lancaster I ME757 WS-O
832
Bardney
Brest
FSgt J K Scott RAAF
Crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas {Finistere}
Killed
Plougastel-Danoules Communal Cem
13.08.44
9
Lancaster I ME757 WS-O
832
Bardney
Brest
FSgt C T Scott RAAF
Crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas {Finistere}
Killed
Plougastel-Danoules Communal Cem
13.08.44
9
Lancaster I ME757 WS-O
832
Bardney
Brest
FSgt D W McConville RAAF
Crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas {Finistere}
Killed
Plougastel-Danoules Communal Cem
13.08.44
9
Lancaster I ME757 WS-O
832
Bardney
Brest
FSgt W R Andrews
Crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas {Finistere}

 

The Public Records Office / National Archives is the first place to go.
The Squadron Records should be easy to find and by going back through them you should be able to assemble a profile of the crew , number of ops. flown when they came to the Squadron and from what HCU they came .
Frank Mason's book on the Lancaster has an excellent history of each aircraft produced , or the Air Britain file for the Lancaster will give a brief summary of the aircraft concerned.
The RAF Museum at Hendon should be able to provide the Form 78 for the airfrat which will provide data on its movements , repairs etc.
To trace the history of the aircraft back via a research agent might prove expensive but if you live within satriking distance of Kew it might be worthwhile going there -it will provide you with much of what you are looking for.
Trouble is , it will also make you ask more questions !

Contact the Department of Research & Information Services

 

This Lancaster Mark 1 ME757, was among the fourth batch of 250 Lancasters constructed at Mosely Road,Trafford Park by Metropolitan Vickers (Steam Turbine manufacturers) acting under licence from Avros from a contract placed in 1942.The aircraft were delivered to the Royal Air Force between November 1943 and January 1944 with production rates averaging 21 aircraft per week.It was only on charge to No 9 Squadron at Bardney and its last two raids were by daylight.

Interestingly it featured on the important raid to destroy by Tallboys, on 31 July 1944,the Rilly la Montagne railway tunnel (6 kms south of Reims and in champagne country) This target had been identified through intelligence to be the site for storage of V1 Flying Bombs.Bill Reid VC, at the time serving with No 617 Squadron went into the bag here when after releasing his Tallboy,his aircraft was hit from an aircraft bombing above him.

On the day the ME 757 was lost,it was up at 0832 from Bardney in a force of 28 Lancasters and 1 Mosquito put up by No 5 Group (bases situated around Lincoln) to attack shipping and U Boat pens in Brest and its large natural harbour area.Lancaster ME 757 was the only aircraft lost over the target and during the operation which was to deny the Brest garrison, the capability of using large shipping to block off the harbour and prevent the early use of the port by the US Army who were advancing on the port from the East.

The Rear Gunner F/S W.R.Andrews is thought to have survived the loss of ME 757.No doubt the Squadron history may account for his fate.At this stage of the war it is likely that he was one of the many who had the good luck to evade. There were some who fell into the wrong hands and evasion was not possible.

The Rade de Brest (the natural harbour of Brest) seagoing facilities on its shore line presented quality targets against shipping for the Royal Air Force throughout the war .Royal Air Force burials around the shoreline which is quite extensive, bear testimony to the attempts by aircraft of BC and CC to deny the Germans the unrestricted use of any port facilities and the U Boat pens.

Plougastel- Daoulas is but a short distance to the Brest port.Other Royal Air Force graves are at Cameret and Crozon on the south side of the Rade.Other graves are on the Baie de Douarnenez at Douarnenez itself in the south.

 

hi Mark,
I'm new on here so here goes!
My Dad was in WS-H ND948 which was downed 25th June 44 given the target of Prouville.
If you would like to dig deeper with me I'll gladly help.
Anyone wants to discuss this particular "first Mass Retalition Raid" 24th/25th June 44 against the V1 threat then please reply.
Mel

 

Hi Mark
Although I never knew him. Flt Sgt D W McConville RAAF is my uncle.
I would be able to inform you about his life in Australia before WWII.
"A great horseman and good fellow at rest"
Steve McC.

 

On this day there were 286 Commonwealth Air Force Deaths.

ATA

RAF Iraq Levies

RAF 192

RAAF 45

RCAF 40

RIAF

RNZAF 3

SAAF 5

Rhodesia Air Askari Corps

WAAF

West African Air Corps 1

RAAF FATALITIES IN SECOND WORLD WAR AMONG
RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT
IN ROYAL AIR FORCE SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS


Source:

AWM 237 (65) NAA : A705, 166/11/168 Commonwealth War Graves records
W R Chorley : RAF Bomber Command Losses of the Second World War, Page 384
Volume 1944
Aircraft Type: Lancaster
Serial number: ME 757
Radio call sign: WS – O
Unit: ATTD 9 SQN RAF

Summary:

Lancaster ME757 took off from RAF Bardney at 0832 hours on 13th August 1944 on a
daylight mission to bomb shipping at Brest, France. ME757 was seen by other 9 Sqn
crews on the same mission to be hit by flak over the target, the port wing tip being shot
off. The aircraft turned to port and then dived straight to the ground. No crew were seen
to leave the aircraft.

Crew:

RAF Flt Lt Relton, E H M Captain (Pilot) †
RAF Sgt F W Johnson, (Flight Engineer) †
RAAF 425626 Flt Sgt C H Edwards, (Navigator) †
RAAF 426166 Flt Sgt J K Scott, (Bomb Aimer) †
RAAF 428799 Flt Sgt C T Scott, (Wireless air Gunner) †
RAAF 424110 Flt Sgt D W McConville, (Mid Upper Gunner) †
RAAF 24647 Flt Sgt W R Andrew, (Rear Gunner †

Post war it was established that the aircraft crashed at Plougastel-Daoulas (Finistere),
8kms ESE of Brest.
All the crew were killed. Six of those killed are buried in the Plougastel-Daoulas
Communal Cemetery. Plougastel-Daoulas is a village and commune 8kms ESE of Brest.
Flt Sgt Andrew is buried in the Hottot Les Baques Cemetery. Hottot Les Baques is a
village 14kms south east of Bayeux. Locality Calvados, France.


In Memory of
Flight Lieutenant Pilot
Edward Harry Maxwell Relton
138457, 9 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died on 13 August 1944 Age 34
Son of Edward Alfred and Edith Renee Relton; husband of Margaret Yvonne Relton.
Remembered with Honour
Plougastel-Daoulas Communal Cemetery

In Memory of
Sergeant Flt. Engr.
Frederick Walter Johnson
1390712, 9 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died on 13 August 1944 Age 23
Son of Frederick and Charlotte Johnson; husband of Evelyn Maud Johnson, of East Ham. Essex.
Remembered with Honour
Plougastel-Daoulas Communal Cemetery

In Memory of
Flight Sergeant
Charles Herbert Edwards
425626, Royal Australian Air Force
who died on 13 August 1944 Age 23
Son of James Thomas Edwards and Edith Mary Edwards, of Gympie, Queensland, Australia.
Remembered with Honour
Plougastel-Daoulas Communal Cemetery

In Memory of
Flight Sergeant
John Keith Scott
426166, Royal Australian Air Force
who died on 13 August 1944 Age 21
Son of John Stenhouse Scott and Elsie Janet Scott, of Beechmont, Queensland, Australia.
Remembered with Honour
Plougastel-Daoulas Communal Cemetery

In Memory of
Flight Sergeant
Cyril Thomas Scott
428799, Royal Australian Air Force
who died on 13 August 1944 Age 28
Son of Cyril Reginald and Violet May Scott; husband of Caroline Scott, of Matraville, New South Wales,
Australia.
Remembered with Honour
Plougastel-Daoulas Communal Cemetery

In Memory of
Flight Sergeant
Douglas William McConville
424110, Royal Australian Air Force
who died on 13 August 1944 Age 27
Son of Thomas Thorpe McConville and Alice Rose McConville, of Narrandera, New South Wales,
Australia.
Remembered with Honour
Plougastel-Daoulas Communal Cemetery

In Memory of
Flight Sergeant
William Ronald Andrew
24647, Royal Australian Air Force
who died on 13 August 1944 Age 22
Son of Hugh and Mary Andrew, of Bell, Queensland, Australia.
Remembered with Honour
Hottot-Les-Bagues War Cemetery

 

Might be worth someone looking up some info in W R Chorleys 1944 volume of RAF Bomber Command Losses. I dont have that one. Must get it though...

 

Might be worth someone looking up some info in W R Chorleys 1944 volume of RAF Bomber Command Losses. I dont have that one. Must get it though...

The source on my previous post is credited to Chorley.

 

Hello Steve,

I had the pleasure this year to take part to a very short conference as I, with some friends, met some Australians, relatives of a fighter pilot downed in our area in 1943 (north west Brittany, France), and found your post. We mentioned several fighters and bombers where part of the crew were Australians, and among these planes, Lancaster ME757.
I’d happily share with you what I have about this crash. I do very well know the crash site. I have pictures of the crew graves (apart Andrew not buried at Plougastel), of the crash site, and of the remains I found at low tide on the coast and on the hill. I twice dove on the propeller and the engine that are still in the water, but do not have any water-proof camera.
I’ll certainly go there again, as I’m quite sure there are other remains to be found there.

Wouldn’t you own any picture of F/S McCONVILLE Douglas William and/or crew or plane ? To add any such picture to a talk or travelling exhibition, instead of relating just a name, is always much better.

Best regards
Gildas

 

FS Charles Edwards was my uncle, and I do have copies of some of the letters he wrote to his mother in Gympie.
Initially he apparently trained as a pilot in Australia, but failed after "a couple of broken flying regulations to my credit' and only 2 hours sleep before an unexpected test. He had 55 hours flying time and only 1 week to finish the course.
Following this he trained as a navigator.
He relates that on the 'maiden flight ' of ME757, they 'got a flak hole in the starboard wing' but he doesn't say what date that was, obviously.
On a mission 17 July he relates 'we followed a jerry fighter home, who was laying flares guiding fighters set to attack our bombers'.
In a letter 8 August he bemoans that their pilot has been replaced because 'he was considered too short for 4 engine bombers' so the crew had to go through training again with the new pilot (presumably Flt Lt Relton).
I think I have a picture of Charles in uniform, and as a lad in Gympie if anyone is interested. Just let me know. Am planning to visit Plougastel Doulais next month, so fished out this info to refresh the memory, and thought I may be able to add some background info in the navigator.

 

Hi John,

Any photos are always most welcome.

I am a collector of every single Australians Headstone or Memorial who died in the RAAF or other Allied Air Forces during WW2 and all from the AFC, RFC, RNAS, and RAF (from 1918).

Good luck with the trip.

Cheers

Geoff
Melbourne.

 

Hello and welcome, John
You will see from just searching on spidge that he has contributed a huge amount on RAAF crew, so if you have anything he can add to his voluminous files, please contact him. He's been a great help to me, as well.
I have also taken the liberty to PM Gildas for you as with only 1 post you cannot yet access the Private Message system.
By replying to Geoff and myself as separate posts that will probably get you to the minimum required!
I hope you are able to meet up with Gildas and see the sites important to you in Plougastel.

For what it is worth, the RAF Loss Card adds the detail that the pilot (not necessarily the rest of the crew) had carried out 11 Operations. They carried 12 1,000lb bombs and 5 were identified and buried at Plougastel, but Andrews and Cyril Scott were not mentioned, however it seems that Andrews at least baled out but was found dead some distance away from the wreckage with the rest of the crew. The rear gunner was often the only one able to exit a spinning aircraft, by rotating his turret and falling backwards out of the rear door.

I hope that adds a little more to understanding the events that night.
I haven't seen any nightfighter claim relating to ME757, presumably others have looked.

You'll have notived that a relative of McConville made a single post on here in 2012, but he hasn't returned, perhaps Admin might be able to alert him to your visit.
Alternatively you might be able to trace him/her as the family may still be in the Narrandera NSW area, maybe try Googling, facebook, or similar site?

I hope you have a rewarding visit, it's one of those itches that has to be scratched!

 

Thanks KevinBattle. If Gildas is available on Sunday 3 August, I would like to view what remains if any, or at least visit the site where Chas crashed.
Interesting that William Andrew is buried up near Caen - implies he did survive and was lost on another mission at a later time. When I come back home in August I must fish out whatever photos I have - medals, photos, and scan parts of Chas's letters. Being a new boy, don't know if I should upload them to this site or not. All of his brothers survived the war, but are now all departed.

 

John,

Are you aware that you can view the digitised files on these airmen in the Australian archives?

http://www.naa.gov.au/

Type their Service Number into the box marked 'Explore Collection', if a notepad icon appears next to their file it means it has been digitised, click to view. If no icon then you can have the file digitised for a small fee.
Your uncles Service File has been digitised but not the Casualty File, F/S Andrew's Casualty File is available and may answer a few of your questions regarding the burials.

Rgds

Pete

 

For my part I see no reason for you not loading the photos and other memorabilia if YOU want to do so...
The families of the rest of his crew may well see them in the future and appreciate your gesture.

I'm sorry if I'm being dim here, but why do you say that William Andrew being buried at Hotton

He was on ME757 as per the Loss Card, and is recorded as dying that same night, so he couldn't have been on another mission at a LATER time....
I think the explanation is that he did bale out but either his parachute failed to open and he landed some distance from the wreckage or he drifted with the prevailing wind some distance away before being discovered, which is why he wasn't identified and buried with the others.
Presumably he was found a little later than the others and perhaps by Allied troops who had him buried in the nearest Allied cemetery at that time.

Have you read the digital copy of his personnel file?
He had a sister, Mrs H Byrne, 101A, Wendouree Parade, Ballarat. There may still be family in the area.
His brother James and father, Hugh, were c/o PO in Bell.
William was born 6 December 1921 and enlisted on 7 Feb 1941 and promoted as temporary Flt Sgt on 16 Mar 1944.
He trained at 17 OTU, so sounds as if he only joined 9 Sqdn only on 13 July '44.
He was rated "Excellent" at aircraft recognition and assessed that after further experience would make a good Gunnery Leader.
Noted he was "worthy of every consideration".
He had over 72 hours of flying experience by the time he left 17 OTU in April 1944..

I then looked at his Casualty File - sad news was that both his parents died within 5 weeks of each other and that his brother James (who had been called up to the AIF) had died of CSM (?)No CWGC record though...
That left two brothers; RB (Corporal) and JS running the arable farm at Bell.

Cor, there are some intense emotions held in these files... there's a communication thanking a Mrs Elise J. Rogan of 32, Derby Lane, Liverpool 13 for a letter and photo of his grave which the RAAF forwarded to his NoK, noting the "beautification" of his grave.
One photo shows his wooden grave cross in a large area of bare earth when the Hottot cemetery was constructed in 1947, with other RAAF graves in the background. Mrs Rogan obviously went there for a purpose and W R Andrew was the first on the list of photos she sent to the RAAF for distribution to their next of kin. Perhaps she knew William....?
The file also contains a Memo from December 1946 noting that salvage of the wreckage was impossible and that a memorial Plaque to Flt Sgt C T Scott would be erected. That rather implies that Scott was not recovered.

There is a file note that the RAAF Liaison Officer visited the Commune at Plougastel to investigate the report of a 4 engined bomber crashing in the sea near to Moulin de Kerdrein at approx 11:15 (French Time?). The following high tide washed ashore 5 bodies. All personal effects except ID discs were removed by the Germans and he 5 men were buried in separate coffins in one grave (which he remarked was extremely well cared for).

It then states that a 6th body was washed ashore at the same spot on 22 August and initially buried in a separate field by Mr le Bot. This had the identity disc for W R Andrew. He was exhumed from the field by the Americans on 10 October and reburied at Hottot les Bagues. This clarifies why he is separated from his crew mates. The Liaison Officer concluded that all the crew were aboard at the time of the crash and presumed that C T Scott was still in the wreckage, the fuselage of which could be seen some 8ft below at low tide, suggesting it was possible to salvage. He obviously didn't bale out as I surmised previously.

I hope this information regarding the more precise crash site is of use to you for your visit, and my thoughts will be with you.
In the meantime, you could apply to have your uncles RAAF Personnel and Casualty files digitised (if not already done done) so you can cross check with any useful information they may contain.

(PS: If it provides a link as to why Edwards and Andrew were in the crew, Andrew also failed to qualify as a pilot - maybe that's what drew them together?.

EDIT: Gildas has responded and would like to contact you.
I suggest you try the Private Message system, perhaps you'd need to respond to my post on this thread to get to qualify, and then you can exchange details should you wish.

There is a Route du Moulin de Kerdrein which has a small road leading to the shore, and which is virually due south of the Brest U boat pens, so if it's of any consolation it would seem they dropped right on target but were then immediately shot down. There also appears to be no record of bombs being found in the wreckage, so the boys did what they were asked to do, and gave their all for it.

 

Hello John,

I had the pleasure to meet last month 20 Englishes and Australians, all relatives of a Walrus crew crashed in 1940.

It would be a pleasure acting as a guide to you to go to Plougastel cemetery, and to the crash site. I also would be interested to know if you would agree to attend a little ceremony if I ever may organize this for that day ? Please find my contact gildassaouAThotmail.com, replacing of course the AT by @, so to see when and where we can meet.

The remains I have of Lancaster ME757 are at the flying club where I'm working, If I'm on holiday from this evening to the 4th of August, I'll have an opportunity to go and take them, so you may go back home with at least one of two items. We may look for new remains together, but if the weather's good, would have to care of vipers, as it is a kind of ideal place for them, with rocks and bushes...

If you prefer to go more down than up and use to swim (but in "cold" water, usually about 17-18 °C in summer time), if you're ready, the propeller is not so deep, and could probably be seen from the surface. But the only way, is at low tide (that will be at 4:30 that Sunday 3 August), because of the strong current of water when the tide is going up or down.

Answer when you can.
Regards

Gildas

 

Hi Gildas,

A generous offer of your time for John. Would make his trip all the more worthwhile.

Also glad the The Walrus crew "family reunion" with Alan and Co went well.

Cheers

Geoff

 

Was that the Madame de Gaulle rescue attempt?