Looking for Information – RAMC & RA (Operation Varsity)

Hello everyone,

I am researching a small pack and a lightweight gas mask bag that I bought some time ago. The small pack is named Sgt. Winter 89543 2RA and the gas mask bag is named L. Turner 14578020. According to the seller they are from Operation Varsity. I can’t confirm that yet, but the price was alright for two named bags.

I have done some research and this is what I found:

Sgt. J.C. Winter

First name(s): Joseph Charles
Last name: Winter
Service number: 895384
Enlisted: 96th Fd Regt RA (TA) 21-4-39
181 F. Regt 6-3-42
Release: 228/45 Y Release 20/1/45
Release 8/46 Clan? Z(T) Res 3/1/46

Sadly I can’t find much more about him, but since the bag is marked with 2RA I’m guessing he was with the 2nd Royal Artillery (possibly 2nd Airlanding Anti-Tank Regiment, RA). But of course it could also be from Operation Plunder. For some reason I can’t find his service record in the National Archives, which puzzles me considering he had quite some service and was awarded the Efficiency Medal (G.V.R. Territorial) and held the rank of Sergeant.

Pte. L. Turner

All the information I have gathered:

First name: Leonard
Surname: Turner
Service number: 14578020
Date and place of birth: 04/10/1924, Bucknall
Last Regiment or Corps (based on cap badge): RAMC
Discharge date: 5/11/1947
Service record archive reference: WO 422/118262

In 1944, around October or November, he appeared on a casualty list attached to the 2nd Battalion Monmouthshire Regiment as RAMC.

He or his family applied for medals on 2/10/1986. The following medals were awarded (if I have interpreted it correctly):

• 1939–45 Star
• France & Germany Star
• War Medal 1939–45
• General Service Medal with Palestine 1945–48 clasp

During my research, I located his service record in the National Archives. Unfortunately, his file will not be publicly available until the 1st of January 2040. To access it earlier, I would need confirmation that he since has passed away, but I do not have any current information about his status. Given his age he might even still be alive. Right now I am stuck in my research because I do not exactly know when or if he has passed away, and I also struggle with finding him or his family on any social media or public records.

So if anyone could help me figure out more information about them, it would be greatly appreciated. If you need more information or have any questions, please feel free to ask.
Thank you in advance for your help.

Kind regards,

 

Welcome Max,

1) J.C. Winter

His name and number have not appeared here before your post. He was originally enlisted in the RA (before early 1942).

We always recommend applying for the subject's full service record (except the Scots Guards). Yes, it may take a year to arrive - either from the MoD or National Archives (TNA). It is not available online and is the definitive record. There is nothing you can do about the wait. The records were never intended to be read today. See: Get a copy of military records of service

The MoD are still holding records and TNA only display those they have worked on. It can be a long wait and now costs ££.

This is a useful explanation of the choices offered by TNA for service records: National Archives Service File Applications - Pre Feb 2026 v Post Feb 2026 Process

Until you get his record it will help if you do not speculate which unit he was in, for e.g. 2 RA could mean 2 AGRA (a larger formation of field, medium and heavy regiments).

2) L. Turner

His name and number have not appeared here before your post. He was originally enlisted in the General Service Corps, so enlistment after early 1942, when the Army initial training and assessment changed.

TNA Ref: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C18091666

Yes it is 'Closed' as their procedures require an official document recording his death (CWGC entry will do). Follow the link and TNA explain: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mod-closed-foi-request-step1/C19248003 Or apply for a Death Certificate via: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ Follow the instructions shown.

This is a useful explanation of the choices offered by TNA for service records: National Archives Service File Applications - Pre Feb 2026 v Post Feb 2026 Process

General point: You have to decide how much time & ££ you want to allocate to research.

 

Thank you!

Time and costs are not really a problem because I genuinely want to know more about both of them. However, to request their service records I would need confirmation that they have passed away.

With Turner I have come quite far in my research, but with Winter I have reached a complete dead end. I have been thinking about diving into the war diaries of the 181st Field Regiment, but I am afraid that might end up being a waste of time and money.

I have gone quite deep into Turner’s research and while searching the GRO website I could not find a recorded death. I searched year by year from 1947 up to 2024. With Winter, however, I barely know anything apart from his name, service number and regiment. I suspect he transferred to another regiment before Varsity, but I cannot confirm that.

I have also been contemplating contacting the Staffordshire council, since Turner was born there, in the hope that they might be able to help me further, although that also feels a bit like a shot in the dark.

 

1) J.C. Winter

Enlisted: 96th Fd Regt RA (TA) 21-4-39

This was a Devon-based Territorial Army, so I expect he lived there (which spoils what follows). See: 96 (Royal Devon Yeomanry) Field Regiment RA (TA) - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

Posted: 181 F. Regt 6-3-42. See: 181 Field Regiment RA - The Royal Artillery 1939-45 and was formed from the kSLI. See: King's Shropshire Light Infantry - Wikipedia

The genealogy site I use has one Joseph Charles Winter, born 15/7/1917 and died in 1992 @ Lincolnshire. If that was him, he was 22yrs when he joined the Army in 1939.

Might be worth applying for his Birth Cert. via GRO, normally it will show his parents details and his Death Cert. too.

Again a might, write to TNA / MoD explaining you have his name and Service Number (which is not req'd for a record), but have a possible DoB (which they do require). They should know what his DoB is.

Caveat about War Diaries (not mine): That is common to 99% of all war diaries - officers are generally named but other ranks not. I don't think this should be concerning or troubling; diaries were not intended or written with a view to future researchers or historians, just to layout the basic facts of their day to day operations in difficult circumstances. Having said that there can be quite wide variations, not only by different regiments but also by clerks, depending upon the information provided to them. Quite often the appendices give far more information, although again names of ORs hard to come by, section reports can be quite detailed in some cases. By Tony56 in: War Diaries

Try the British Newspaper Archive (BNA), ££ site, but most UK public libraries have in-person access free. Identify the local papers to his birth county.

 

2) L. Turner

The genealogy site I use has no matches. This makes me wonder if he emigrated after WW2. Might be worth applying for his Birth Cert. via GRO, normally it will show his parents details and then try some research.

Again try the British Newspaper Archive (BNA), ££ site, but most UK public libraries have in-person access free. Identify the local papers to his birth town. See: Bucknall, Lincolnshire - Wikipedia

 

Thanks again for the help, I have found the death records of both L. Turner and J.C. Winter. Turner passed away in 1994 and Winter indeed in 1992.

Right now I will try to apply for their death certificates, although I am not entirely sure if that is possible from abroad. The GRO website only seems to give me the option for delivery by post, and I am not sure whether they also ship internationally, but I will have to look into that.

I have already tried requesting their service records using a screenshot of the GRO register as proof, although I am not sure if that will be sufficient. But we will see.