Hi all – trying to help a work colleague and a bit out of my depth. Most of my research is where the person’s name & number are known due to them being a casualty and using that info to ascertain the cause of death. This bloke survived the war (passing away in the 1980s) and the only snippets that have been passed along are that he was a RAF Lancaster tail gunner and that he was with the RAF but flew with NZ. My assumption is that he flew with 75SQN (RNZAF) – if I can’t come up with a better idea I was thinking of paying TNA for a few months’ worth of their ORBs to see if his name pops up. His name was George Leonard Deane of 12 St Johns Lane Bristol Not enough to go on as yet to search the London Gazette for his possible commissioning or any awards etc and from there to obtain his service number. I know that the long term answer is to request a copy of his service file from the UK, but depending on how lucky she is that could take up to 12 months to arrive (British Army records take that long, unsure of RAF ones) Anyhoo, I know it’s been on this site before, but I can’t locate it right now – how would she go about requesting his service file? What extra info would she need up front?? cheers Dave
Hi Dave, might be worth a look at the following........ http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/23223-obtaining-raf-service-records-rules.html Good luck with the research. Regards Peter
Thanks Peter – I knew I had seen it before but for the life of me I couldn’t find it again. Lots of great info and I will give her all of the relevant links so she can send for service records (Cranwell) & RAF medals (Gloucester) – with a suggestion to contact the medals office first as they will be able to let her know which medals he was issued with and as a bonus they should have his service number etc. I followed the advice from one of the posts concerning the TNA AIR 78 index – “download the AIR 78 index cards from The National Archives website free of charge in the form of pdf files, so you can search them at home. These and several other free files are known as Digital Microfilm” I didn’t realise how large the file would be that should have contained his name – some 300+Mb. The microfilmed slips contain name and RAF service number only but I couldn’t find him. I presume that means: A – he is one of the airmen with a missing slip B – he was commissioned and his medal details are in the officers’ files (AIR 76) C – my work colleague gave me the wrong details for her GF (there is a George Lionel Deane) ************************************************************ This index is not 100% complete. The great majority of the original index slips were microfilmed, however there is a small number of random gaps, where a slip had been lost prior to filming.
Hi Dave, I would go with George Lionel. Apart from a very few direct entry all wartime entry commissioned officers enrolled as ACH and commenced aircrew training as LAC so regardless of eventual rank they should appear in AIR 78. It's a good research short cut to put the following search term into google: 1585394 deane site:London Gazette Home Page That way if he had been subsequently commissioned you would pick up his entry on his OR Service Number or surname. (OCR faults rarely effect both name and service number!) So for this airman no commission. Another place in AIR 78 to check is Deane with initials G L which usually appears before the full name lists of Deane. Again in this case no entry so either George Lionel or a missing card. Next look at the family history angle George L Deane who lived in Bristol into Ancestry brings up a marriage in Bristol Jan/Feb/March 1940 in Bristol to spouse Elsie R Harper. Getting a copy of the marriage cert will show if this is George Lionel. Work mate may recognise name Elsie R. Regards Ross
Cheers Ross - so option B is out. I thought that once commissioned the cards would have been transferred to officer land. Option A is pretty unlikely as it appears that the missing pages are only a very small percentage. So we are back to option C - wrong middle name passed down through the family. I will check to see if the name Elsie R Harper rings any bells.
Email exchange with the lady searching for info on her Grandad follows. Basically correct on both counts from Ross’s response - incorrect middle name was originally supplied and he was married to Elsie R Harper As stated, the service number from the AIR78 card doesn’t produce any hits in the London Gazette so I suppose we are back to needing his service file – that will be up to her to arrange (along with his NOK – her mother). PS - the AIR78 card has a small "DU" in the bottom corner - any possible meaning?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 10:56 Hi, Wow, thanks for all the time that must have taken. Yes.... sorry.... it is Lionel and the marriage details are correct for my GF and GM. I never met her, she died at the young age of 24ish in the then Rhodesia, where they moved for her health (supposedly!..... when we start digging, history seems to change somewhat). If there is an index card for George Lionel Deane it will be interesting to hear what he did... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Less time than you think - I posed a couple of questions on a forum and received a link to a pre-existing thread that had most of the steps outlined for this sort of query. Other info and advice was received to round out the query. The index card is just a proof that he did serve and that he has a service file held by the archives. It shows the service number for George Lionel Deane (1585394) which will come in handy when applying for his service records. That number has been searched for in the London Gazette with no hits found. This means that he finished the war without a commission and no awards (DFC etc or a MiD - Mention in Despatches).
An interesting service account to unravel. The airman's service number suggests that he joined the RAF at Weston Super Mare in September 1941. Since he joined the RAF after 3 September 1939, he would be categorised as RAF VR.He would initially join as an Aircrafthand in Trade Group V if he was destined to be aircrew, Others were who were destined for technical training would also join as Aircrafthands in the Trade Group V.(RAF internal transfers to aircrew were suspended from the outbreak of war but reinstated in February 1940) Entry classification would be AC2 in both cases.In the case of Air Gunners their status through training was somewhat different and inferior to pilots and observers and other designated aircrew.Throughout their training, their classification remained as AC2 until they passed out as LACs,AC1s or AC2 according the marks attained at passing out.Pilots and Observers attained the rank of LAC as soon as they had passed their ITW and remained as such with added pay until they had passed out and received their wings. However,as regards those outside the Pilot and Obesrver designations,there was an improvement in status in May 1940 when the minmum rank of Sergeant was introduced on the completion of training.Also at this time, clarity was introduced in aircrew training.Those destined to be commissioned on completion of training were defined as "air cadets" and those who were to progress to Sergeant were defined as "cadets". So this airman,as an Air Gunner would pass out from his aircrew training (ITW) as a Sergeant then attend a B&GS,a AGS and finally a OTU where he would be formed into a new crew.From here as a member of a crew,the entire crew would be posted to an operational squadron depending on wastage requirements on existing squadrons or for the creation of new squadrons.(The HCU training element as an added training phase was introduced later as the 4 engined heavies came into service in numbers) Looking at the induction into the RAF and the arrival of an Air Gunner on an operation squadron,it would be probably a year after induction.So this would put a date of August/September 1942 before the airman found himself on "ops".(The other option is that he may have joined the RAF and volunteered for aircrew from groundcrew duties which if this was the case,would result in him appearing as aircrew at a later date.) If the airman was posted to No 75 Squadron,the aircraft on charge at the time was Wellingtons,to be replaced by Stirlings in Novemeber 1942 and finally by Lancasters in March 1944.
