Looking for history on the 2nd Battalion the Cheshire regiment. 1939/40. BEF

Discussion in '1940' started by RFoster1, Nov 16, 2021.

  1. RFoster1

    RFoster1 Member

  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I'm really surprised this thread has had no replies.
    Usually the 1940 chaps are all over queries like this.
     
  3. Kiwi REd One

    Kiwi REd One Junior Member

    From The Cheshire Regiment - The Vickers Machine Gun

    "The 2nd Battalion was organised as a divisional MG battalion but attached to General Headquarters, British Expeditionary Force, available to Corps Troops as required. It took part in the Campaign in France and Belgium, May 1940.

    When War broke out the Battalion was mobilised and sent to France where it joined the I Corps and was attached to the 1st Division. It remained this way until withdrawn from Dunkirk in May 1940."


    2nd Cheshires were a specialist Machine Gun Battalion armed with a total of 48 Vickers .303 Medium MG's, not an ordinary infantry battalion, so their individual MG companies/platoons would be "lent out" to individual brigades on an as required basis by Divisional HQ to give additional fire support to infantry units. The battalion would not normally be expected itself to fight as a complete unit. Here's the organisation of an MG battalion in 1940: Infantry (Machine Gun) Battalion, May 1940

    You can get some further information (and links) about 1st Division's time in France in this fairly recent thread: 1st (British) Infantry Division BEF 1940

    Unfortunately it seems from that thread that not a lot of material on 1st Division's time in France has been published.

    Your best bet to track down actual locations for the battalion would purhaps be to get a copy the 2nd Cheshires war diary for period Sept 39 - June 1940 from the National Archives in Kew?

    Good luck with your research.
     
  4. RFoster1

    RFoster1 Member


    Yes i think so, i have asked on here if anyone has a copy. No replies yet. I have done as much research as i can i think really just using google etc.

    Thank you.
     
  5. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    I have the Regimental History and can help with your enquiry, but as mentioned at post No. 3, the companies within the 2nd Bn Cheshire Regiment, being HQ, A, B, C and D companies, would be deployed individually. To narrow down your family member’s ‘path’, it would be helpful if you were able to tell me which Company he served with. Do you know this?

    There are 40 British soldiers buried at that cemetery, all from May/June 1940. Amongst them are 24 from the 1st Bn Duke of Wellington’s (West Yorkshire) Regiment and 3 from the 2nd Bn Cheshire Regiment. The former were serving with the 3rd Infantry Brigade, British 1st Infantry Division, and formed part of the BEF rearguard. ‘D’ Company, 2nd Bn Cheshire Regiment, supported this unit. However, the Regimental history reports no incidents on the 1 June 1940. Also, most of the Companies of the 2nd Bn Cheshire Regiment, appear to have been in or around Hondschoote at this time.

    Do you have any further information that would help narrow this search?
     
    4jonboy likes this.
  6. RFoster1

    RFoster1 Member

    Thank you for getting back to me!

    Unfortunately no i don't have anymore information on him or what company he was with. I am trying to find that out online but i don't seem to see much information on the 2nd Cheshire's at that time.
     
  7. Cpl Hadaway

    Cpl Hadaway Active Member

    Just stumbled across this thread. The citation below might be of interest. All these men were recommended for the MM but instead received MiDs for what seems to have been a very extended and significant action.

    One of the men, Pte Philip Carrick, 4127553, was captured with the same unit in the desert on 4/9/42 and was later incarcerated, via Stalag 4B at the W603 Stalag 4D workcamp at Bed Schmiederberg, Germany alongside my father.

    Here's a few basic details on Carrick, citation below:

    POW no: 228144, 4D, Carrick, 4127553, L/Cpl Phillip,
    Reported missing, Western Desert, 4/9/42, serving with 2nd Bn Cheshire Regt.
    Bad Schmiedeberg W603, see group photo here:
    British Bad Schmiedeberg POWs 1945

    Mentioned in Despatches for services with the BEF,
    LG 20/12/40:
    Page 7187 | Supplement 35020, 20 December 1940 | Lo...
    Search results: 4127553 | The National Archives
    From Boothstown, Manchester.

    Might be worth researching the other men....


    CarrickPMiD.JPG
     
  8. Cpl Hadaway

    Cpl Hadaway Active Member

  9. Naticle

    Naticle New Member

    Hello. Similarly to the original poster I too have queries regarding the 2nd battalion Cheshire regiment in May 1940.
    I apologise that my knowledge of events is severely lacking so Im be grateful for any assistance. firstly I have written to the Cheshire military museum for assistance but await their guidance.
    My great uncle Robert Henry Scarisbrick (4125842) died in the retreat to Dunkirk. He’s buried in Les Moeres communal cemetery which is where my questions start.
    1, how comes they are in a neat line of graves? Would he have been buried by locals and moved after the war? In which case how do we know he died on the 30th May as stated.
    2 his family were not advised of his death and I can see in November 2014 an advert was placed in the Liverpool Echo for news. So again it makes me curious to know what information was used to say he died on the 30th?
    3. He is the only member of the Cheshire regiment visible in the cemetery (around half known only to god). I wonder how this came to be?
    4. Last question to Kiwi REd One you mention the war diary at Kew. Do you think the Cheshire military museum would have this or would this be different?
    Photo of Robert Henry attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Naticle

    Naticle New Member

    November 1940!
     
  11. Kiwi REd One

    Kiwi REd One Junior Member

    Hello Naticle

    Sorry I did not see your question eariler, I'm not always a regular visitor here.

    As your great uncle was killed on active service the plot of the communial cemetary where he is buried in will be adminstered by the Commonweath War Graves Commission. They provide for the neat lines of graves, similar headstones etc and may be able to advise you if he was moved to Les Moeres after the war etc. You can find their website here:The Commonwealth War Graves Commission | CWGC

    Can't help with the circumstances or date of his death.

    Copies of the war diaires will be held in the UK National Archives at Kew, if they exist. A quick search of their website Website search | The National Archives does not bring up any obvious hits for the Cheshires in 1939-40.

    Being in NZ for many years I have never got to Kew myself, but other UK based contibutors may be better placed to assist you.

    You have already contacted the regimental museum so they will be able to tell you what material they have available there when they reply to you.

    Not very helpful I'm afraid but I hope you find it of some assistance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
  12. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Naticle

    These are details from CWGC website
    There is no Concentration Report Form which would indicate if there was a previous burial and movement to a CWGC Cemetery later.

    https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2277027/robert-henry-scarisbrick/

    It seems that he didn't die in the retreat to Dunkirk, he was defending the Beaches alongside 1st Infantry Division
    while the main part of the BEF was being evacuated.
    See #3 and #7 above.

    From The History of the Cheshire Regt.
    The 2nd Battalion was organised as a Divisional Machine Gun Battalion but attached to General Headquarters, British Expeditionary Force,
    available to Corps Troops as required. It took part in the Campaign in France and Belgium, May 1940.
    When War broke out the Battalion was mobilised and sent to France where it joined the I Corps and was attached to the 1st Division.
    It remained this way until withdrawn from Dunkirk in May 1940.

    Casualties were often buried on the day that they were killed, details obtained from their ID tags and registered.
    It seems that they were being buried in the local Communal Cemetery almost as they fell.
    There may have been a Medical Dressing Station nearby to treat wounded and certify the dead.
    There were four days to go before the last of the BEF finally left.

    The 1st Infantry Division were tasked with holding the beaches until their last rounds were fired.
    They withdrew to Dunkirk leaving on Royal Navy Destroyers.

    My hand sketch Defence of Dunkirk Beaches.jpg
    Sketch map of the Beaches. Les Moeres is on the right below and right of Bray Dunes near De Panne.

    Google Maps
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2023

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