Logistical Planning information

Discussion in 'General' started by jwsleser, Sep 10, 2023.

  1. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    There's a pretty much complete set of the 1938-40 period FSPBs courtesy of the Memorial University of Newfoundland Digital Archives Initiative -


    I had a quick scout through and No.12 (Misc. Tables and Data) includes some example fuel requirements for various 1939-40 era formations. Unfortunately the Ammunition Tables are not included, marked instead as 'to be issued later'. Amn details are given in the early war WE Tables, and I think there are some basic calculations in the RASC Petrol Company WEs.

    I thought I'd seen something on the FFC papers from early war on LAC but searching yesterday came up blank. They have the 1942 FFC prospectus on 'wastage', which includes some background on ammunition, and also gives the definitions for the Quiet, Normal and Intense rate classifications. Things had moved on a bit by 1942 so they wouldn't necessarily be appropriate for the 1937-40 period.

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  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

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  3. jwsleser

    jwsleser Active Member


    Thank you for the link. Some excellent information. One important bit from Pamphlet 13 is that the 2nd Line transport carried fuel for 50 miles while the 3rd Line carried only 25 miles. Now to discover what the unit carried. My sense is 100 miles, but that is a SWAG.

    Another bit is that the fuel consumption should be increased by at least 20% during active operations.

    Pista! Jeff
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  4. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Link to the other book. Movements Ect
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  5. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    rations page 433.jpg supply book.jpg pol supply book.jpg pol egypt supply book.jpg pol egypt supply book page 511.jpg pol egypt supply book page 512.jpg f Appendices XI and XII (Field Service Ration Scale) and some other info from the book.
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  6. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    A few pages on the Middle East, but there are more so it`s best if you try to get the two books, or i could take photos of some of the pages.
    Page 147 ends, with a tanker berth built in the Great Bitter lake, the latter with the Suez installations ,and the two areas together.
    pol Middle East supply book.jpg pol egypt supply book.page 146.jpg pol egypt supply book.page 147.jpg
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  7. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Just had a check of the early war Divisional Petrol Companies and they did have a summary of their holdings.

    Divisional Petrol Company (as in Infantry Division) had two Sections (as in Platoons), each carrying 25 miles supply of petrol for all units of the Division. The Motor Divisional Petrol Company had single Section (Platoon) carry the same total of 50 miles, for all 1st Line units of the Div. In the Inf Div, each Section had nine each of 3-ton and 30-cwt lorries marked as petrol carrying. The Motor Div had 22 3-tonners.

    A Light Armoured Brigade Company, RASC, had 100 miles for all 1st Line vehicles of the Brigade, the Heavy Armoured Brigade Company the same, and the superseding Armoured Brigade Company, RASC, 75 miles. Support Group Company, RASC, likewise 100 miles for all 1st Line vehicles.

    This kind of detail largely vanished from the later RASC WEs, and certainly did with the move to the modular organisation brought in during 1941.

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  8. jwsleser

    jwsleser Active Member

    Sorry for the delay in answering, I have been working this same issue covering the Italian side of the campaign.


    Thank you the pages on the theater level system in Egypt. Interesting bit that the fuel containers were made locally.


    Thank you for confirming the infantry division numbers and for providing the armoured unit information.

    I do have one question.

    I don't quite understand what is meant by 'superseding'. Does this mean that hvy bde RASC company with 100 miles capacity was replaced by a company with only 75 mile capacity, or that the 2 line company had 75 miles, or something different?

    Thank you.

    Pista! Jeff
  9. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Hi Jeff,

    Yes, the 1940 WEs do show a reduction in the amount of petrol being carried for an Armoured Division. The February 1940 WEs for the various units of Armoured Divisional RASC (Light Armoured Brigade, Heavy Armoured Brigade, Support Group and Divisional Troops) all specified 100 miles of 'replenishment petrol' for the Brigade or formation being served. The RASC WEs were rewritten in June 1940, reflecting in part the changes in the format of the Armoured Division, key of which was the move to two identical Armoured Brigades, with the old light and heavy differentiation gone, though of course the Armoured Regiments still maintained a mix of light tanks and cruisers.

    The June 1940 Armoured Division RASC WEs all stated 75 miles of replenishment petrol. Previously though there were three Sub-sections each of six 3-ton lorries carrying petrol for each Light and Heavy Armoured Regiment in their relevant RASC Company, plus two more for Brigade HQ. The switch to the standard Armoured Brigade actually increased the RASC Company to four Sub-sections each of six 3-tonners, plus again two for Brigade HQ. I've nothing to offer on why more lorries resulted in seemingly reduced loads.

    I did find some comments on petrol for the Armoured Division from much later on, February 1944, re the changes then being made to RASC units. These stated that a total of 55 miles would be carried in formation RASC for Armoured and Tank Brigades and Armoured Divisional Troops Companies, and 75 miles for Infantry Brigade Companies (Armoured Division), dropping to 50 miles for a standard Infantry Brigade Company, RASC. This was attributed to operational experience that showed a 'given scale of petrol' generally provided a 'greater radius of action' than might be calculated, in part because it was rare for all unit and HQ vehicles needing to be on the road at the same time. I found a reference last night to 100 miles worth being carried by units and 75 miles by RASC units but I cannot find it now...
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  10. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Well I did find the comments I thought I'd seen, again from later on in the war, discussions of September 1943 that led to the changes of February 1944. In brief it was noted that the then loadings were based on a 'long standing arrangement', whereby units carried 100 miles worth of petrol, 2nd Line transport another 75 miles and 3rd Line 50 miles. The 75 miles does at least correlate with the 1940 figures.

    I don't think offhand I've ever seen a prescribed total of petrol to be carried by any form on unit, but I have fixated on ammunition for a long time to might have missed it. One figure I've seen from 1944 shows an Infantry unit 3-tonner carrying 570 4-gallons petrol tins and five oil drums. Not being a petrolhead I've no idea what that might equate to.

  11. jwsleser

    jwsleser Active Member

    Thank you Gary. Apologies for the delay on responding. Several irons in the fire.

    I feel I have enough basic data. I am not sure how this will be worked into the book, but I wanted to have it handy if the writing requires this discussion.

    Again thank you to everyone that provide assistance.

    Pista! Jeff
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  12. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

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