Kings Regiment 8th Btn Liverpool Irish

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by IrishSoldier, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. IrishSoldier

    IrishSoldier Member

    These guys were part of 7th Beach Group which took part in the Normandy landings on Juno Beach... apart from some info on wikipedia I cannot find much else of interest on the web regarding the Liverpool Irish in WW2... I believe they had a white anchor in their insignia and would love to see any pics if anyone can point me in the right direction...
  2. izzy

    izzy Senior Member

    There is a book on the 8th bn called A personal history of the 8th irish battalion the kings liverpool regiment by Jim Fitzsimons isbn o-9541111-1-7 .There are a few pictures but no white anchors to be seen.
  3. Hi Irish Soldier,

    Izzy's right - a good place to start is Jim Fitzsimons book - mostly a personal history, some photos, etc. My grandfather was in the 8th Btn all the way through - I've got quite a bit of info extra to the book - what do you want to know - I might be able to help. Have attached a brief comparison between the 'official' movements and those recalled by Jim Fitzsimons.

    The Kingsmen 'Official' Diary of movements.
    First post-war edition, August 1946.

    8th May – Formed as a Territorial Battalion
    11th May – My Grandfather enlisted (OK - this is extra to official record!)
    July – went to Gower, South Wales
    September – stationed at Maghull, then to Heysham Towers, Morecambe

    March – Hovingham, Yorkshire
    May – Broadstairs and Ramsgate (Kent)
    September (early) – Rye
    November – Haydon Bridge, Northumberland

    April – Adderbury, Oxfordshire
    July – Welwyn Garden City
    November – Lowestoft

    August – Felixstowe

    July – outside Glasgow
    September – Winchester then to Winbourne (Dorset) and then to Bournemouth – ‘where it remained until the succession of moves round the various camps in the concentration areas prior to embarkation’ with the exception of January 1944

    January – two weeks in Scotland on the banks of the Firth of Forth
    June - embarkation to Normandy

    Jim Fitzsimons' recollections in his book:
    Fitzsimons, Jim (2004), A Personal History of the 8th Irish Battalion, The King's Liverpool Regiment, ISBN 0-9541111-1-7

    I have made the comparison notes in brackets

    Liverpool - (agrees with official record)

    2 weeks in Driffield, Yorkshire – (officially Hovingham, Yorkshire)

    Before 1941
    Margate and Ramsgate – (officially Ramsgate, Broadstairs and Rye)

    Northumberland – (officially in 1940 – WRONG year)

    Adderbury, Oxfordshire – (officially in April 1941 – WRONG year)
    May – Felixstowe – (officially in August – WRONG by 3 months)

    Paisley, Scotland and many coastal areas - Ayrshire, Irvine, Dundonald, Monkton and Prestwich – (officially July 1943 outside Glasgow) – he adds more specific locations but OK for year and area
    September – South of England – (officially Winbourne, Dorest, etc which is more specific) – OK for year and area

    1 January – Scotland – (officially - two weeks in Scotland on the banks of the Firth of Forth) - OK for area
    Extra to and more specific than the official record – Slapton Sands, Eastleigh and Southampton prior to embarkation
    Ianrhay likes this.
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    some info on this thread from another forum regarding the JUNO beach groups.
    some good photos of insignia.

    CSC Discussion Forum: Beach Groups

    I'm not saying these are King's Regt but they are 7 & 8 Beach Group men.




    On 6 Jun 44, 102 Beach Sub-Area Group's AOR was Juno.

    102 Beach Sub-Area Group was made up of 7 and 8 Beach Groups, which consisted of the following:

    102 Beach Sub-Area HQ 7 Signals, R Sigs
    242 & 244 Provost Companys

    8 King's Regiment
    5 Royal Bershire Regiment

    22 & 23 Beach Recovery Sections, REME

    HQ 7 GHQ Tps Engineers, RE
    72, 85, 184 & 240 Field Companys, RE
    19 & 20 Stores Sections, RE
    59 Mechanical Equipment Section, RE
    11 Port Operating Group, RE
    1034 Port Operating Company, RE
    966 Inland Water Transport Operating Company, RE

    58, 115, 144, 170, 190, 225, 243, 293 Pioneer Companys
    HQ 30 Transport Column, RASC
    199 & 282 General Transport Companys, RASC
    139 & 140 Detail Issue Depots, RASC
    240 & 242 Petrol Depots, RASC

    15 Ordnance Beach Detail, RAOC
    45 Ordnance Ammunition Coy, RAOC

    32 Casualty Clearing Station, RAMC
    1, 2, 33, 34 Field Dressing Stations, RAMC
    33, 34, 45, 46, 56 Field Surgical Units, RAMC
    13, 14, 36 Field Transfusion Units, RAMC
    3 & 4 Field Sanitary Sections, RAMC
    21 Port Detail, RAMC
  5. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    According to illustration in Osprey's "Irish Regiments in the World Wars" men from 8th King's Regiment had anchor on their sleeves and also a white bend on helmets, just like those on Owen's second photo.
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    War diary at TNA
    WO 171/1317
    8 King's Regiment (Liverpool)

    Covering dates1944 Jan.- Aug.
  7. Thought I'd attach these - they're from the July 1946 Kingsman which has diaries of all the battalions where available at the time. Appears to show that the 8th Battalion was in 7 Beach Group and that the 5th Battalion was in 8 Beach Group (missing on your list?). My grandfather was in the 8th and was batman to a Capt Foster who was 2-in-C of B company. Unfortunately Capt Foster was killed on the 7th June but his cap badges are still in our family today. Also attached is an image of Montgomery with Lt-Col W. J. Humphrey, MC who was the commander of the 8th and was taken on the beach.

    Attached Files:

  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Are they confusing 5th Royal Berks?
    They were in 8 Beach Group at Bernieres su Mer on JUNO . I took this last month.

    5th King's were on SWORD they in 5th Beach Group.

  9. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    I have the landing tables for 3 Canadian Division and can confirm the following.

    8 Kings formed the nucleus of the Beach Group for Mike beach. The first men, from A Company, were timed to land at H + 20 minutes, with further groups landing with each subsequent wave.

    5 Berkshire formed the nucleus of the Beach Group for Nan beach.

    The photograph posted by Owen shows a Military Police Corporal of the Beach Group. All Beach Group personnel had the anchor insignia and a white band on the helmet. MPs had a red band.
  10. Not an expert and I've only got the 8th (Irish) Battalion pages scanned in at the moment so I don't know - just thought I'd post the images. As for the 5th I'd need to check The Kingsman again to see what they say about that Battalion - can't imagine how they'd get it so wrong? From another thread that shows landing craft deployment for 3rd British Division Group I can only find A Coy 5th Kings and Signal Platoon 5th Kings going on at Queen White and Queen Red respectively in that Division. Trux - can you post the landing table for the 8 Kings? Would really appreciate it.
  11. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron


    I am willing to share information but the tables I have consist of 320 digital images and are not arranged by unit. 8 Kings appear on many pages as separate groups land. I will reflect on how best it can be done.

    PS. I dont work very quickly.

  12. Hi Trux,

    Thanks for the offer and I know what you mean - my main interest is genealogy and I've 1,000's of digital images that I'm happy to pass onto other researchers - saves time and all that. Obviously e-mail's OK for a few but when you get into the big files I use an online storage system - Send you the link, password, etc... upload/download. One thing that's taking off a bit more is - create an account - it's free and they only want an email and password - then you can create pdfs online and share them making them available for download - cloud computing they call it and pretty soon you won't need apps on your PC - just internet access. Just thought I'd pass this info on.
  13. Hi Trux,

    Got the message. To attach files you click on Post New not Quick Reply and below there is a panel Additional Options - Attach Files - Manage Attachments - click on that. Another window should launch where you can browse to upload files from your computer. Good luck. I look forward to seeing what you've got.
  14. nofnet

    nofnet Junior Member

    I've come to this a bit late but if anyone has any further interest in the location and movements of No. 7 Beach Group the following info may be helpful.

    Attached to No 7 Beach Group and therefore, most of the time, co-located and training with 8th Kings was an RAF beach unit. The record of that unit gives some detail of activities and locations:

    On the 5th July 1943 No. 76 R.A.F. Beach Unit moved to Gailes Camp adjacent to Dundonald Camp and was attached to No. 7 Beach Group for training.

    (No. 77 R.A.F. Beach Unit was to be located with No. 8 Army Beach Group, and all were part of No. 102 Army Beach Sub-Area.)

    On 20th July the Headquarters, Landing, Equipment and Explosives Sections of No. 76 R.A.F. Beach Unit moved to Monkton Camp, near Prestwick, Ayr.

    On 17th August 1943, No. 76 R.A.F. Beach Unit became No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section and moved with No. 7 Beach Group from Monkton Camp to Johnstone Camp, near Paisley, Glasgow.

    (At the same time No. 77 R.A.F. Beach Unit became No. 104 R.A.F. Beach Section and No. 2 R.A.F. Beach Unit was formed from these two Sections plus a Headquarters that was located with No. 102 Beach Sub Area Headquarters).

    On 30th September No. 103 Beach Section moved to Bushfield Camp, near Winchester.

    In October 1943, the whole of No. 2 R.A.F. Beach Unit took part in Exercise “PIRATE”, for which practice landings were carried out at Studland Bay, and at the end of October No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section moved from Bushfield Camp to Wimborne.

    On 28th December, No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section went to Beach Group Practice Camp at Gullane for Exercise “ROUNDABOUT”. They were joined by No. 51 R.A.F. Beach Balloon Unit on 4th January 1944. Both units returned from this exercise on 12th January and No. 51 Beach Balloon Unit was now located with No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section for training.

    On 14th January 1944 No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section moved to the Highcliffe Hotel, Bournemouth.

    No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section moved with No. 7 Beach Group to West Walk Camp, Portsmouth on 11th March. The personnel of No. 2 R.A.F. Beach Unit were now living under canvas.

    After taking part in Exercise ”GOLDBRAID” from 26th March to 31st March, No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section moved from West Walks (North) Camp to Hiltingbury “A” Camp, near Winchester on 4th April 1944 – still under canvas.

    In April 1944, Rear H.Q. 2nd Tactical Air Force changed the titles of their beach units so that No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Section became No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Flight and its parent unit, No. 2 R.A.F. Beach Unit became No. 2 R.A.F. Beach Squadron.

    Also that month, No. 103 Beach Flight participated in Exercise “TROUSERS” and an inspection of the 3rd Canadian Division, 102 Beach Sub-Area and Nos. 7 and 8 Beach Groups by His Majesty The King.

    On 26th April No. 51 Beach Balloon Unit, now renamed No. 51 Beach Balloon Flight and part of No. 974 R.A.F. Beach Balloon Squadron, rejoined No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Flight, attached to No. 7 Army Beach Group.

    Exercise “FABIUS III” took place at the beginning of May 1944. No. 51 Beach Balloon Flight suffered 50% balloon casualties (15 balloons) owing to adverse weather conditions and, on 13th May, No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Flight was present at an inspection of the Beach Groups by General D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander, at Hiltingbury “A” Camp.

    On 30th May marshalling for Operation “OVERLORD” began and personnel of No. 103 R.A.F. Beach Flight moved to Area C8 (Hiltingbury Area). On 5th June 1944 the Flight set sail for France.

    No 103 R.A.F. Beach Flight were with No. 7 Beach Group and the 7th Canadian Brigade, landing on MIKE Beach in the JUNO assault area.

    Further information about RAF beach units can be found at R.A.F. Beach Units of the Second World War
  15. jayhawkboy

    jayhawkboy Junior Member

    Hello Everyone. I have a personal effect from a former member of either the 7th or 8th Beach Group (probably the 8th). I suspect he was a casualty. Is there any way to potentially identify him from his, most likely, incomplete serial number? The laundry number is "G 66531". Any help would be appreciated.

    My first post!
  16. Hi folks - I put this down a while back and have just come back to it - I got the War Diary for the 8th King's recently (WO-171-1317) Jan-Aug 1944. Attached is a page that says what 7 Beach Group insignia was and if 8 Beach Group was in the 3rd Canadian Brigade then it will have been the same for them. Whatever JayHawkBoy has can you post an image?

    Attached Files:

  17. 2007theban

    2007theban Junior Member

    My grandfather was in the 8th King's Regiment Liverpool Irish and was on Juno and I have been reading these postings out to my 84 year old father who was very pleased to hear them. My dad says Charlie ( my grandfather) was in C company and originally thought he was in No 2 beach group. He doesn't know of his movements and wondered if anybody can help? Thank you
  18. Spadge_hk

    Spadge_hk New Member

    Just come across this forum whilst researching the history of my grandfather who served in the 8th battalion, King's Regiment during WW2. His name was Frank Hartley and although I know little about his service there are photos showing that he reached the rank of sergeant. Any information or photos would be greatly appreciated.
    Drew5233 likes this.
  19. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    Welcome to the forum.

    Your best bet will be to apply to MOD Glasgow for a copy of his service records. If you need any further help when you receive them it might be best to start a new topic under his name.

    Good Luck

    Steve Y

    Get a copy of military service records: Apply for the records of someone who's deceased - GOV.UK
  20. tpwritinghere

    tpwritinghere New Member

    HI - Do you have any more information about your grandfather being based in Welwyn Garden City (July 1041). Regards Tony Powell


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