JU 353 crash, Hitler's papers and Else Kreuger

Discussion in 'The Third Reich' started by robin bird, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. robin bird

    robin bird Well-Known Member

    I am researching the life of Else Kreuger, Martin Bormann's secretary in the Fuhrerbunker. Post war she lived in my home town of Wallasey Cheshire. Else was believed killed in a a JU 352 that crashed carrying Hitler's personal papers as her luggage was discovered in the wreckage. However, she did not leave the Bunker until the last moment with SS Waffen Brigadefuhrer Wilhelm Mohnke. They were captured. It seems a couple of JU 352s left Berlin during the fall of Berlin. Does anyone know which aircraft contained Kreuger's luggage? Robin Bird author/journalist achgelis@yahoo.co.uk
     
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  2. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson Member

  3. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Hi Robin,

    the name is spelled Krüger (Krueger). The search for that aircraft may be very difficult. I will try to check.
    Else Krueger was Born on 2nd Feb. 1915 in Hamburg-Altona and married Leslie James on 23rd Dec. 1947 in Wallasey, but I guess you already know that.

    Stefan.
     
  4. robin bird

    robin bird Well-Known Member

    Else married the British interrogating officer Leslie James. Yes, the ceremony was here in Wallasey on December 23 1947. I know, too, where they lived. She had escaped the bunker with waffen SS Brigadefuhrer Mohnke.They were captured by the Russians. However, she was going to fly out of Berlin in a Junkers. Her luggage was in it. It crashed. It was first believed she hsd perished. I think the aircraft also had Hitler's papers on board. A few aircraft escaped during the fall of Berlin. Suspect it was a JU 352 that crashed could be the aircraft I am looking for? thank you for the feedback robin bird
     
  5. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    OK, I try to check.

    Stefan.
     
  6. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I think the plane your looking for may be here?

    http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-37501.html

    Theres mention of a crash with a JU 188 the plane was carrying Hitlers archives??


    Kyle




    :( 21 Apr 45 1 Hit trees on a Berlin-Munich flight with Hitler's archives and valet on board Maj F. Gundlinger pilot all KIC except the gunner
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi

    I do not know if this helps the thread or not but on Ancestry there is:

    All Mecklenburg, Germany, Parish Register Transcripts, 1740-1918 results for Else Krüger

    Else Marie Gertrud Friedchen Krüger
    date event type date city
    Parents:
    Friedrich Carl Bernhard,
    Ernestine Minna Marie Erna

    TD
     
  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    This is turning into a very interesting thread.
    Regards
    Tom
     
  9. robin bird

    robin bird Well-Known Member

    I have followed Else's eventful escape route to Wallasey Cheshire, where I live. She left the bunker with Brigadefuhrer Mohnke and others but her luggage had been put on an aircraft, which she did not board. The aircraft (a JU 352?) crashed and Else's luggage was found in the wreckage. She was for a while presumed killed in this crash. This is the last bit of the jigsaw I need to complete. Incidentally Else was believed to be the last survivor of the bunker and was last known to have been living in Staufen, Germany. robin bird, thanks for the feedback
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    If you do not have them:

    Marriage details:

    Name: Leslie James
    Spouse Surname: Kruger
    Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1947
    Registration district: Wallasey
    Inferred County: Cheshire
    Volume Number: 10a
    Page Number: 1386


    Name: Else M Kruger
    Spouse Surname: James
    Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1947
    Registration district: Wallasey
    Inferred County: Cheshire
    Volume Number: 10a
    Page Number: 1386

    TD
     
  11. robin bird

    robin bird Well-Known Member

    Tricky Dicky, yes thank you and their cottage still exists in Wallasey, which I found out today. Think the aircraft was the JU 352 from Berlin on April 21, 1945, that crashed at Bornersdorf
     
  12. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Hi Robin,

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=101470

    See the above link which seems to confirm the crash of a JU 352 in Boernersdorf on 21st April 1945. According to this link Else James died on 18th August 1995 in Staufen/Breisgau in South-West Germany. The very crash of the JU 352 was also used in the false story of the Hitler Tagebuecher (Diary).

    I try to double check on that crash and in the Staufen registry.

    Stefan.
     
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  13. robin bird

    robin bird Well-Known Member

    Wallasey Village where Else lived was bombed during the Liverpool Blitz, close to the cottage they occupied. Wallasey Village is a suburb of Wallasey, a large residential town and the village is a busy built up part of that town. Leslie James bringing his German bride into that close knit community must have caused comment and provoked interest. Yet her past seems to have remained secret. I wonder then if Else took her secret to the grave (1995 Staufen), or if she is 100 years old and has her story still to tell???? People I spoke to in Wallasey Village this week did not know anything about Mrs James nee Kreuger (Kruger). Leslie's father was a shopkeeper in Wallasey Village. The German bride of his son must have provoked comment at the time, so soon after the war. Customers must have asked questions about her Yet, no one seems to have known that the new Mrs James among them had escaped Hitler's bunker. Even today! Amazing.
     
  14. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    No news about the aircraft, but news about Else James.

    I have received a confirmation that there is an urn-grave with the name James in Staufen. No further details yet.

    Stefan.
     
  15. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Robin,

    To receive additional information from the Staufen authorities is typically for data protection reasons not possible. However, there seem to be 2 urn-graves both with the name James in Staufen. One for Lesley James 31st July 1995 and another one with non-confirmed dates and full names. It needs a visit to the cemetery in Staufen to see what the gravestone says. Both graves look well looked after, so I guess there must be some relatives or friends taking care. Any idea?
    What is your information on Lesley James?

    Stefan.
     
  16. robin bird

    robin bird Well-Known Member

    leslie james was the officer who interviewed Else following her escape from the Bunker. They fell in love and married at Wallasey in 1947 when leslie returned to civilian life in the immediate post war years. They lived for a few years at his parents' cottage in Wallasey Village before he moved on career wise. The couple then went to live in Germany explaining the two urn graves in their names. they had one child, a son. It seems they took their remarkable love story to their graves. Hence my interest. I have just returned from the National Archives Kew to view the Bormann files that investigate that he was still 'alive'. There is a brief mention that Else and her husband had moved to an address in Bedford by August 1953. This is the only reference to her amid several contemporary reports that Bordmann had been seen in a monastery in Rome, in Eire, in the Argentine etc None of these reports were taken seriously by the authorities although they were investigated to some degree. It appears, too, that Else was of no interest anymore. Her mention in official files was merely an update of her whereabouts should she needed to be contacted if Bormann had turned up!
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Robin

    To confirm some info from your last post:

    Name: Harold James
    Mother's Maiden Surname: Kruger
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1956
    Registration district: Bedford
    Inferred County: Cambridgeshire
    Volume Number: 4a
    Page Number: 73

    Which would show they were probably still living in Bedford area in 1956

    and just trawling around Ancestry I also found this birth, which considering the mothers maiden name being 'rare' or uncommon is a possible second child.


    Name: Joanne H James
    Mother's Maiden Surname: Kruger
    Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1962
    Registration district: Plymouth
    Inferred County: Devonshire
    Volume Number: 7a
    Page Number: 700

    There are no family trees that I can find at present which include the above

    TD
     
  18. robin bird

    robin bird Well-Known Member

    thank you everyone for your interest. Frauline Kruger was described, while staying at the witness house, as being more intelligent than she made out. She refused to talk about Bormann, or her time in the Bunker, with others. Thanks, too, to tricky dicky about Harold. Checked my files to see when Mr and Mrs James moved to Germany. They were believed to be still be living in Cambridgeshire into the 1980s. She would have been 47 if they had a second child in 1962
     
  19. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Hi Robin,

    the non-confirmed dates of their deaths being so close together (18 days) may also point in the direction of a Love Story.
    I wonder if we have a member living in Staufen or close by, e.g. Freiburg or across in France. A photo of the urn-grave stone may be clarifying it. I could give some guidance to this person/member to find the grave.

    Stefan.
     
  20. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Hi Robin,

    I managed to have the attached photo taken at the Staufen cemetery. Looks like both were buried there.

    Stefan.
     

    Attached Files:

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