Trying to find out any information about my dad William Stuart Bates based at RAF Wickenby 1943 onwards with 12 Squadron. He was a Flight Sergeant and Air Gunner born in London 4/12/24. I have a couple of photos but can’t work out how to post them here. Any information gratefully received.
Ian: Do you have his logbook? That would be extremely helpful to determine his operational service period with 12 Squadron. The “Operations Records Books” (Form 540/541’s) will detail each of his operations. A good search engine is available here: RAF AIR 27 :: :: You will need an account with the National Archives. You can download the ORB PDFs for free. Jim
I browsed the ORB Records (541's) for January and July, 1943. I see records in July for a "Sgt S. Bates" (no service number recorded) for several different pilots: July 27/28 1943 (Hamburg) with W/Cdr Wood. July 29/30 Hamburg with Sgt Yell. There are no records earlier than July 27/. Not certain by any means but that is probably his first op, if indeed this individual is your father. Unfortunately, the ORB Summaries for RAF Squadrons often do not record the "Postings In and Postings out" as the RCAF Squadrons do, so I cannot easily determine when he was attached to the squadron. Edit: Yes. The August ORB records he was with Yell's crew for ops in August. Search Away! Jim
Hi Jim Thank you so much. I do have his discharge papers which has his operational service period on them. I think he went to Wickenby in the summer of 1943 so that would fit. His middle name was Stuart so maybe he was S. Bates not William his first name. Very helpful of you and how strange to see what might be his name. He said he was a rear gunner which is in those flight records. I’ll send on his papers to you if you could have a look I’d much appreciate it. Ian.
Hi Ian. Unfortunately this Squadron’s ORB is thin on personal details. Some entries don’t record any initials. I suspect this individual is your father, but without the service number we cannot be absolutely certain. Also, no postings in and out. As I mentioned you should get an account at the National Archives (Kew) and you can download all that you require. You never said anything about his logbook? Jim
Good morning Jim Thank you so much for this. I’ve joined the national archive so I’ll have a good look through the records. It does seem likely it’s him and I’ll know more when I get his records which my mum has. Kind regards Ian.
Ian, It appears only one man named William Stuart Bates served in the RAF during the war. Service number 1591049 indicates a post-September 1941 enlistment at Weston-super-Mare. There is a lady named Anne Law of the RAF Wickenby Memorial Collection who should be able to help. Research – Wickenby Museum Regards, Dave
hello Dave. Thanks for this. How did you find this out? There’s such a lot of information it’s like a needle in a haystack but that service number may prove the key. I’ll get in touch with the Wickenby lady and see where it leads me. Thanks again, Ian.
Ian: Dave always provides useful information! Your father's service number will likely be on his various documents, including his discharge papers, dog-tags (if you have these), logbook and other material. I note that there was also a rear gunner called "Bate" in one of the documents in the 12 Squadron ORB Appendix (AIR 27/170) who appears to be attached to another crew. Be sure to check out the Appendix, as this has Combat reports that may involve your father. You mention "Needle in a Haystack". You have the Needle(s) in the ORB's, which while "thin" for 12 Squadron as compared to other squadrons, they do detail some specifics, including bomb loads, etc.. You can get some specific details in the "Night Raid Reports" which detail Bomber Command's assessment of the operations (raids) your father was on. They provide higher level of what was going on around him that night. Jim
Ian, I found that in the AIR78 series of files at TNA, Kew. They are just slips of paper, perhaps nine or 12 to a page, which contain the full names of all (mostly, some are missing) airmen and women who served in the RAF between 1918 - 1975, as well as their service number. As mentioned, I only see one man with this name and the service number I gave was issued in the war. File was AIR78/11/4. Bates, Harold Lewis - Batterham, Eric. | The National Archives There is no further information on these slips ie. squadron served in etc. That, I'm afraid, will have to come from his service file. Please avoid all these genealogy pay sites which state they have WWII service records. The records are still with the MoD, although they are targeted to be moved to TNA - timeframe unknown by me. Get a copy of military records of service: Apply for the records of a deceased serviceperson - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) If your folks married during the war, have a look on their marriage certificate. His service number should show up there. Regards, Dave
Hi Dave. You provided the correct service number and I will let Ian report on his findings. The Sgt. S. Bates who was with Sgt. Yell's crew was recorded as missing with the rest of his crew, 14-15-January-1945, as recorded in the 12-Squadron ORB for January-1944. Jim
Hello Dave and Jim, Here’s what I found. Dave, you were right about my dad’s service number 1591049, although joining up in Weston Super Mare is a bit of a mystery. i
The 12 Squadron ORBs confirm P/O Yell and crew failed to return from the operation to Brunswick, 14/15-January-1944. All were killed and are buried in the Hanover War Cemetery. Ian. Sgt. S. Bates, was the same age as your father, 19 years old when he died. See this link: 14/15.01.1944 12 Squadron Lancaster III JB542 PH-M Fg.Off. Yell, RAF Wickenby, Immensen, Germany (aircrewremembered.com) And this one: Lancaster III JB542 [Royal Air Force Aircraft Serial and Image Database] RAFCommands.com
Ian, as your father's service record shows, he was posted in to 12 Sqn 25/6/45 from 75 Base, service number 1591049. This is confirmed in the relevant part of the 12 Sqn Operational Record Book, AIR27/169/11. I have made a nominal index of 12 Sqn aircrew, but am away from my records for the next few weeks. However he flew at least two 'Dodge' sorties 28/8/45, returning 1/9/45 and 3/9/45 returning 5/9/45 before being posted to 550 Sqn 21/9/45 (AIR27/169/15). His posting in to 550 Sqn is recorded in the 550 Sqn O.R.B. (AIR27/2037/39), but not his posting out 29/10/45. Hopefully of interest. Regards, Mark.
Thanks Mark, That’s great information and thanks for taking the time and trouble to look him up. None of this I knew until this week! Fascinating. regards, Ian.
Hi Mark I’ve just downloaded all those links you mentioned and there he was! Also with a pilot he mentioned Ken Page who I’ve never been able to trace before. Thanks so much and if you have any more info it’ll be gratefully received. Regards, Ian.
Ian, Maybe worth downloading all files from AIR27/169/11 to 16 inclusive, if you haven't already, as well as AIR27/170, the 12 Sqn appendices, and AIR27/2037/40, which should have note of K.J. Page's posting out, to RAF Snaith if I remember correctly. Regards.
