Images of POWs, 1940

Discussion in '1940' started by dbf, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    "If this last image was intended to contrast the Aryan master-race with inferior beings then I'd suggest that it missed its purpose. Quite frankly, the sneering captor doesn't compare well with the other ass in the photograph."

    This looks like a straightforward soldier's 'snap' to me - the colonial soldier as an object of curiosity more than anything - although the general ideology was often that the imperialist and colonial Allied powers had to rely on 'inferior' races for their soldiers. Goebbels had requested, indeed ordered, specifically and overtly racist images of French colonial troops in late May 1940 and, as well as the PK units who provided much of his material, ordinary soldiers were encouraged to contribute snaps from their own cameras. These found their way into newspapers as well as more propagandistic publications. It's unclear as to whether the use of cameras was actually forbidden -as they were in the British forces. Of course that didn't stop people taking photographs, nor newspapers in Britain publishing them, or indeed running competitions to obtain them. Great images Rich, thanks for posting.
     
  2. Rumdoodle

    Rumdoodle Member

    Thanks everyone. Thanks especially Rich for posting the pics. The Indian soldiers were part of 22 Mule Transport Coy RIASC. They were captured near Epinal, and spent the war in POW camps. Several of them escaped, and some joined the German 950 regt, the Freies Indien Legion. I'm currently researching the whole of K6 for a MA in History, and hope to publish something in due course.
     
  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    This is fascinating, Rumdoodle. Were they stationed near Epinal as part of the lines of communication of the rotating units on the Saar or were they attempting to reach Switzerland from further north ? 'Rewdco' who posts on the forum has an ex-BEF motorcycle which spent its post-war life in Ostwald. I believe that Epinal is as close as we have come to placing a British unit there. I'm looking forward to telling him that he will be exempt from crash-helmet laws, but will have to wear a turban ! :)
     
  4. rewdco

    rewdco Senior Member

    :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:
    I think I'll stick to the broody helmet Sahib Payne... But it is an interesting discovery!
    :)
     
  5. Rumdoodle

    Rumdoodle Member

    Rich - I'm going to have to hunt a bit find the specific reference to Epinal, but they were a lot further west than 51st Div who they had been stationed with. Incidentally, Epinal was also the location of a mass POW breakout in 1944, A Greater Escape if you like. On 11th May 1944 the USAAF bombed the POW camp, which had mostly Indian POWs. Around 200 were killed, about 1000 escaped. It's about 100 km from there to the Swiss border. Many escapees made it - 278 had arrived by May 23rd according to the Times. They received lots of help from French civilians and officials, but the Germans retaliated and massacred many civilians from the village of Etobon. More here
    http://www.sikhchic.com/history/etobon_succour_refuge_for_sikh_soldiers_during_wwii
     
  6. Rumdoodle

    Rumdoodle Member

    Rich - I found the ref to where 22 AT Coy RIASC were taken prisoner. It's in a document at the British Library, in the India Office Records - no L/WS/1/355, page 55. In a report dated 18/12/40 by Hills, the Indian Contingent CO. It says 'The unit marched on 17 June to EPINAL a further 17 miles SE and shortly after was captured'
     
  7. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Top info ! I think that I shall have to arrange a look at the whole document. If there are BEF documents relating to how their Lines of Communication went east-west across France, then I haven't worked out where yet....I can't get away from the idea that there must have been a 'permanent' structure supporting the brigades (and then division) rotating on the Saar front. I've found no reference to it though. It must also have involved a number of liason staff with the French command on the Maginot line.
     
  8. Rumdoodle

    Rumdoodle Member

    Happy to have been of service, Rich!
     
  9. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    One more that was on epay with the X .
    pows ww2 x.jpg pows ww2 xx.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  10. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    This one i bought with two guys to the left with a X and a I under the X, came from same lot as the other one on epay
    british pow bef 1940 .jpg british pow bef 1940 back .jpg
    I
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    If I try hard, I can read "Gefangenen Tommys" but not the location. That calls for someone with some experience of Sutterlin schrift.
     
  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Last line is, I think,
    Pfingsten 1940
    = Whitsun, which that year was 12 May
     
  13. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    If you're right Diane, that puts the 51st Division on the Maginot Line, in or around the Hackenberg Fortress, where they were involved in fighting from 10th May and retreated via Metz to the Somme - so could be in that region, but I can't find anywhere that corresponds to the writing?
     
  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  15. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Photos taken from my original ww2 negs. 1940.
    Keith
    british pow 1.JPG british pow 2.JPG british pow 3.JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
    stolpi and Owen like this.
  16. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers, Keith. I wonder with these prisoner photos if the lack of slip-on shoulder titles etc. reflect the fact that the BEF generally did without them or that they destroyed them before capture ?
     
  17. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    See the smiles.

    Relief or knowledge that these photo's were likely to appear at home?

    Or do we all just now smile for a photo?

    What were these guys thinking?

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  18. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    british pows.JPG I like the way the German guards like to be in the photos as well in the 3rd photo and the poster on the door.
    One more taken from an original neg from my collection.
    Unit ID X with a I under it. [ same as one of my other photos 51st Division ].
    Keith
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  19. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    RA pow unit.jpg One more that came in the post. Unit ID RA ? . mixed lot of French and British pows
    Keith
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    That's nice, Keith. I agree that the sergeant in Service Dress looks to be R.A. The chap on the left looks to be wearing a mounted pattern greatcoat (not uncommon in some of the corps that had a mounted history) and also '08 pattern webbing ?

    Not a first line unit, I suspect !
     

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