II SS Panzer Corps

I must insist that film is an insult to brave men that gave their lives trying to reach Arnhem. That those here that never saw action, but rely on Hollywood, fills me with disgust. The drive North on the Market garden operation was a two pronged attack, the other thrust was to the East, between the main drive and the Germans.

In that thrust Northwards many men died, and gave their all to reach their goal. This film made a mockery of the sacrifice of brave men's lives......

I know this will fall on deaf ears. The perceived truth, and the Hollywood truth, always outweighs what actually did happen.

But for the memory of those that fought like tigers to reach Arnhem. I remember. For I lost many good friends on the Market Garden Op. Some of the battles were the very worst, and certainly the most violent.

The night Assault crossing of the Escaut Canal put Dantes Inferno to shame....But that matters little to those that want to believe the Hollywood version.
I remember !
Sapper

 

My question had nothing to do with the film and would prefer comments about the actual question of why the II SS Panzer Corps was moved to Arnhem?

Please start your own thread about the film and stop hijacking a serious question!

 

Airborne medic -
it would appear that your initial question of "who ordered the 11 Panzer Corps to Ahrnem" was answered from a history of the combatants by Gotthard in his message #19 and directed to me for general information - so technically your thread was now redundent -whether you prefer the direction of the subsquent thread's life or not- your intial question did raise the subject of that film and so prompted Sapper's response - and even now he repeats his displeasure as some participants do give the impression that they have absolutely no idea of what warfare is all about and are dependent on the propaganda issuing forth from Hollywood in buckets full.

My own contribution of viewing the American version of that film speaks volumes to their lack of integrity as the truth is a constant casualty.

In my personal - view - as a similar veteran to Sapper - your message #22 is totally uncalled for - but then I'm old and crotchety !
Cheers

 

Cheers Tom, When this film is discussed, it invariably gets me on my high horse. For the USA version is designed to denigrate the efforts of the British,,,,And that makes me angry. Not only for the loss and sacrifice of my good friends. But also for the life I have had to live as a 100% war disabled pensioner, (Wounded twice) and with the severity of my injuries, that put me in the "exceptional severe injuries" class and classed as "Very severely disabled"
My contribution to Market Garden. A life time of paying the price for freedom....I do get angry. I expect for the same reason. I am also old and very crotchety.
But perhaps with a right to be so, for at the end on the long road from Sword Beach to Bremen....there were not enough men left to have a reunion.
So yes I am old Tom and a grumpy old man...hopefully I shall become an even older grumpy old man.
As a matter of interest,Tomorrow the 8th of the 8th, there is small entry in the RE archives. All it says is: Three casualties on the Vire Vaudrey Ridge on a "S mined Road Block" Wass Thomas myself and one dead. I still carry the shrapnel
Cheers Sapper

 

Sapper - know what you mean as I've "been there - done that" still carry a few bits of shrapnel from the Gothic Line 17th september '44- and stiil careful how I sit down on a hard surface - like you I hope to make it to 150 years - as this is the only wayto get my money back from the government !
Cheers

 

I must insist that film is an insult to brave men that gave their lives trying to reach Arnhem. That those here that never saw action, but rely on Hollywood, fills me with disgust. The drive North on the Market garden operation was a two pronged attack, the other thrust was to the East, between the main drive and the Germans.

In that thrust Northwards many men died, and gave their all to reach their goal. This film made a mockery of the sacrifice of brave men's lives......

I know this will fall on deaf ears. The perceived truth, and the Hollywood truth, always outweighs what actually did happen.

But for the memory of those that fought like tigers to reach Arnhem. I remember. For I lost many good friends on the Market Garden Op. Some of the battles were the very worst, and certainly the most violent.

The night Assault crossing of the Escaut Canal put Dantes Inferno to shame....But that matters little to those that want to believe the Hollywood version.
I remember !
Sapper
Brian, first of all your posts do not fall on deaf ears. Far from it. We more than appreciate the work you put in to your posts and I am very aware that you dislike (maybe that is too light a word!) this film. HOWEVER, there are very few people on this board who use this film as a primary source of research. Most of us know that its fiction, its based on a book and a very subjective one at that. Having read "A Bridge too Far" and other books such as "It never snows in September" you can see that Cornelius Ryan had an axe to grind. It should be remembered lads that the book is the area with issues, the film is merely following the book. Not trying to excuse the film (cant stand the scene where Robert Redford is screaming at the British tanker to keep going) but it was an adaptation of the book and followed its angle. Again this is not a defence of the film but that is a point that should be borne in mind.

Now as to Airborne Medic's question, it has nothing to do with the film. I know he refers to it in his initial post, but his question is a very valid one. Who indeed ordered the Panzer Corps to Arnhem. This isnt Hollywood, someone did send them up there. And he's not asking about the film, which I would imagine explains his frustration when it keeps being brought up. I cant read his mind but I would have imagined that he was thinking more of a thread about the German dispositions than about "A Bridge too Far" !!!! If he had only posed the initial question without mentioning that pesky movie this thread would have taken a slightly different tack.

So valid points all round lads

 

Cheers, Point taken!
But British Officers do not scream at anything.
Sapper

 

Cheers, Point taken!
But British Officers do not scream at anything.
Sapper
LOL!! They most certainly do not!

 

Brian, first of all your posts do not fall on deaf ears. Far from it. We more than appreciate the work you put in to your posts and I am very aware that you dislike (maybe that is too light a word!) this film. HOWEVER, there are very few people on this board who use this film as a primary source of research. Most of us know that its fiction, its based on a book and a very subjective one at that. Having read "A Bridge too Far" and other books such as "It never snows in September" you can see that Cornelius Ryan had an axe to grind. It should be remembered lads that the book is the area with issues, the film is merely following the book. Not trying to excuse the film (cant stand the scene where Robert Redford is screaming at the British tanker to keep going) but it was an adaptation of the book and followed its angle. Again this is not a defence of the film but that is a point that should be borne in mind.

Now as to Airborne Medic's question, it has nothing to do with the film. I know he refers to it in his initial post, but his question is a very valid one. Who indeed ordered the Panzer Corps to Arnhem. This isnt Hollywood, someone did send them up there. And he's not asking about the film, which I would imagine explains his frustration when it keeps being brought up. I cant read his mind but I would have imagined that he was thinking more of a thread about the German dispositions than about "A Bridge too Far" !!!! If he had only posed the initial question without mentioning that pesky movie this thread would have taken a slightly different tack.

So valid points all round lads
Thanks...Gotthard.....so I'll start a new thread without the dreaded words that I'll not mention!

 

Wonder if the forum moderators would consider just for Market Garden threads deleting any posts that bring in the film I'm not going to mention when the question is nothing to do with said unmentionable.......??????

 

If you wish to bring up the thread then just start a new thread referring to Market Garden and requesting that its the battle we are discussing and not the film based on a book based on the battle. If it then crops up well we'll keep an eye on it!!

 

Gotthard,

Thanks....and I will....