Identifying the unit in a Dutch photo

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Chris C, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    The Maissoneuve war diary has not been digitised, but the Black Watch has, fwiw. But I don't think this is anything surprising considering what was reported originally about the Fort Garry Horse and Black Watch going through the town.

    I think I'd better "swing back" to C troop to figure out what that brigade of infantry was doing and what their advance was in more detail. I expect it doesn't go through the town in question. (I note that this war diary doesn't even mention them picking up G troop... the poor overlooked anti-tank regiments...)

    I haven't looked up these map references but I note Lemele mentioned partway down.

    Screen Shot 2020-04-15 at 9.29.44 AM.png
     
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  2. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I have looked at the 6 Canadian Infantry Brigade war diary now (amazing, all these scans!) - the regiment was engaged in a mopping up operation which they finished on 10 April and then prepared to follow 1 Canadian Armoured Car Regiment to meet up with the French paratroopers.

    Looking at 5 CIB's war diary, "Isselberg" was "Rijssen". (I would say this clinches it - the Archers in the photo are from G troop, not C. But this has become more just an exploration of this little bit of the battle.)

    Screen Shot 2020-04-15 at 8.56.10 PM.png Screen Shot 2020-04-15 at 8.56.54 PM.png

    I like that whoever wrote this had picked up the term "Jock column"!
     
  3. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    The Germans at this stage of the operation were losing the race to fill the growing gap between the 25. Army and 1. Fallschirm Army. They tried in vain to stem the tide by attempting to defend the different waterways that lay across the Canadian line of advance. First the big Twente Kanaal then the Schipbeek followed by the Overijsselsch Kanaal, Vecht River, Dedemsvaart, Hoogeveensche Vaart and Oranjekanaal.

    See: Operation Amherst: French SAS in Holland, April 1945
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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  4. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    Chris, always happy to support a researcher.

    Here a piece from the 2nd Anti-Tank Regiment Wardairy of April 1945, indeed G-tp in support of this attack of Regiment the Maisonneuve on ISSELBERG.
    This Isselberg, i don't know where this is. I looked on old maps but nothing to find. But will ask some local knowledge.
    [​IMG]

    And this is also a well known photo, 09 April 1945 Regiment de Maisonneuve on their way from Holten to Rijssen.

    [​IMG]

    This windmill was located here

    [​IMG]

    To be continued...
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi Bedee,

    Thanks for your post! If you look at my post #22, you will see a section from 5 Canadian Infantry Brigade's war diary which describes the same action against 'Isselberg' but the town is named 'Rijssen' there instead.
     
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  6. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    Isselburg
    In this area you have a lot of "Bergen" Hills in English. But they are nothing more than high ground. But intressting is why they called it attack on "Isselberg", was there something special ? Will have a look this weekend.
    But anyway Reg de Mais went from HOLTEN to RIJSSEN to NIJVERDAL. When their WD shows up we will find more details.
     
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  7. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

  8. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    Chris,
    All of these units were part of the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division here the ORBAT of this division.
    Le Régiment de Maisonneuve was part of the 5th CIB.
    2nd Anti-Tank Regiment was part of Royal Canadian Artillery (RCA)

    In the Wardiary of 18th Anti-Tank Regiment, nothing new to report.
    See heritage.canadiana.ca


    Every unit level had their own Wardiary, more details in the Battalion WD a better overview in the Divisional WD.

    Chris, intresting that u use the avatar of a archer in front of my Bakkery in Kranenburg. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  9. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    Conclusion, but this is upto you.

    Looking at the soldiers and their uniforms, even if it is hard to see, but you see a few Tam O'Shanters (black watch ?)
    Between the left Archer and the second one you see two soldiers, on is wearing a leather vest this is most probably also a Black Watch soldier.

    3th AT is in the vicinity of Zutphen and Deventer
    1st AT is in the vicinity of the Reichswald (Germany)
    2nd AT is most probably the unit with the Archers on th e picture.

    2nd Anti-Tank Regiment (estimated 36 Archers)
    – 18th Anti-Tank Battery (estimated 3x3 Archers)
    – 20th Anti-Tank Battery (estimated 3x3 Archers)
    – 23rd Anti-Tank Battery (estimated 3x3 Archers)
    – 108th Anti-Tank Battery (estimated 3x3 Archers)

    Who was in support of RdM, according the WD 2nd Anti-Tank Regiment, this was 20th Anti-Tank Battery and some Tanks from Fort Garry Horse.
    See WD RHC (The Black Watch)

    Calgary Highlanders WD
    Mentioned not that much only in the afternoon enemy contact at 097150, this is on the Noetselerberg (Between Holten en Nijverdal)

    So Isselberg is still a mystery, but maybe slip of the pen. or related to the river Ijssel and the Overijsselsch chanal, these bridges they called Ijsselbrug. But this is just an idea..

    Missing Wardiary to get more detailed info are, and maybe someone else can help in this.
    WD Régiment de Maisonneuve
    WD 20th Anti-Tank Battery
     
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  10. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi Bedee,

    I agree, this was probably 20 Anti-Tank Battery who were with Fort Garry Horse tanks and the Black Watch. I know the organizational details you mention because I'm writing a book about the Archer, but thank you.

    Archer strength never went higher than 50% of a regiment's guns after a reorganization in February-March (depending on the regiment). Three batteries would have 6x17 pounder towed guns and 3 Archers, and only one battery had 9xArchers.

    Would you be able to give me the address of the bakery in Kranenberg? :)
     
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  11. Bedee

    Bedee Well-Known Member

    Große Str. 65 is the address of the Bakery in Kranenburg Germany.
    But this Archer is even closer to my house.

    When your book is ready, let me know.

    [​IMG]
    A 17-pounder SP gun, Archer, on the main road near Nütterden (Photo © IWM (B 14435)).
     
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