Identify regiment of liberating British soldiers, Normandy 1944

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Craig Smith, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. Craig Smith

    Craig Smith Member

    Hello

    I have just returned from visiting a French family in Normandy. We have been visiting them since 1994 - my father was at Gold Beach with the Royal Navy.

    Whilst there our hosts showed us a photo of the day the family was liberated. They would like to know more about the regiment that liberated them. I've tried to blow up the insignia of the soldiers best I can. From this I was hoping someone might be able to recognise the unit these soldiers are from. It's a long shot given the angle but you never know.

    Details:

    Photo taken on August 16, 1944 at a farm in La Couture (near La Pommeraye which is approx 15 km due west of Falaise) in Swiss Normandy (Suisse Normande). Taken about midday.

    Cheers
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Craig, might be helpful to other members to post link to your album :)
    Had a look & insignia is too indistinct to make out .
    (might be wessex wyvern but might be wishful thinking on my part. would need to check Div history)

    La Pommeraye Liberating British Soldiers | WW2Talk
     
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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  4. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    So I wagered this to be 59th Staffordshire. Which should tie in with date (and their axis of advance), but I don't have modern gridreffed maps for 59th Staffordshire... yet.

    However... a closer look to the chap on the right appears to be a W.

    If so a 53rd Div unit. "But no 53rd Division units were near La Couture on 16 August!" I hear you cry, however B Squadron 53 Recce were operating closely with 59th Staffordshire along the Divisional boundary... D Squadron The Royals were also shooting about as well. This would also place chap on right, most likely, in the Assault Troop.

    This to me looks fairly likely...

    More thoughts appreciated.

    [EDIT: Above mate is too easterly, but roughly shows 59th Staffordshire's axis post-16 August. But definitely NOT Canadian.]
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Swiper
    Having now spotted exactly where La Pommeraye is on the map I would have to agree that it is more likely 53rd Div than the Canucks

    TD
     
  6. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    By coincidence I've been double checking this area over last few days, given Tréprel was pretty much their most westerly position - held by 4 Welch, it puts more weight to 59th Division or the aforementioned combo by 53 Recce/The Royal Dragoons.

    Quite a few hodgepodge units were going through here, but you'll find barely any of this in print. All Op Knife II stuff which according to conventional narrative - never happened!
     
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  7. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is a quote from the 59th Division history, which provides some location information for the time frame:

    " The Falaise Gap was now closing and the enemy on our front had made a big withdrawal. By 1530 hrs on the 15th 59th Recce Regt had reached St Marc d'Ouilly, closely followed by 1/6 Staffordshire. Here is was viciously attacked by our own aircraft, which caused 20 casualties and damaged 13 vehicles. A similar attack was made on 6 N Staffs (who had joined 197 Inf Bde in replacement of 5 E Lancs) in the same general area, with 22 casualties and 4 vehicles damaged. The general line reached by 59th Inf Div this day, with 197 Inf Bde in the lead, was the road from St. Marc d'Ouilly to Falaise."

    The next paragraph starts with what happened on the 17 August 1944.
     
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  8. Craig Smith

    Craig Smith Member

    Lads,

    That's amazing feedback. The 59th Division history ties in closely geographically - I see St Marc d'Ouilly is just south of La Pommeraye.

    Also, based on Swiper's response above on being possibly recce soldiers, I looked again at the photos and the flash on the upper sleeve of the soldier to the left is really quite long and arched. Could this be RECONNAISANCE? Whatever is below this flash is still too indistinct for me to work out.

    Thanks all, very much appreciated.
     
  9. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Question I should have asked earlier, do they have any more reminiscences/photographs of the day?

    Former can be weak (but occasionally useful) on this stuff.

    Its worth noting that *most* Welsh actions in Falaise, even loads of Staffordshire, have been described as being by 'Canadians' as its the only 21 AG narrative in this period that usually gets pedalled.
     
  10. Craig Smith

    Craig Smith Member

    The main reminiscences of the French couple are Jacqueline's liberation (as above). She has memories of German officers billeted in her farmhouse and also German soldiers and horses in the stables. Sadly, no further photos.

    Her husband Claude was in Angoville at the time. He and several family members hid in a water pipe (which I have visited) for several days as English and German units scrapped it out. He had his first taste of tea from a British soldier that August in 1944...

    Alas that's not much use here but when you listen to first hand accounts of the liberation is makes the campaign in Normandy so much more real.

    In passing I can thoroughly recommend the newish museum in Falaise (Le Mémorial des Civils dans la Guerre) that details the impact of the Normandy campaign on the civilian population (as well as all campaigns across the globe in WW2).
     
  11. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is what the South Staffordshire regimental history states about this period "On the afternoon of the 15th the Divisional Recce. Regiment, closely followed by the l/6th, had reached a point about ten miles west of Falaise, when it was sharply attacked by our own aircraft with loss of men and vehicles; a similar tragedy befell the 6th North Staffords in the same general area. On 17th August the 2/6th South Staffords were withdrawn from the 177th Brigade and the next day the distressing news was received that it was one of three units in the Division to be broken up. Meanwhile the 177th with the 7th Royal Norfolks replacing the 2/6th had advanced down the Orne, fighting well organ- ised German rearguards but making good progress, so much so that by the 20th the 5th and l/6th had passed Mesnil, south-west of Falaise and were moving east to cut off this important town when orders came for the disbandment of the 59th Division."
     
  12. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    I will also try to add quotes from three other regimental histories of 59th Division units: the 7th Royal Norfolk Regiment, the 2nd/5th Lancashire Fusiliers and the 7th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers shortly.
     
  13. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    I will also add the 1st/7th Royal Warwickshire Regiment from their history as well.
     
  14. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Unfortunately, the North Staffordshire Regiment does not have a history.
     
  15. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is the entry for the 1st/7th Royal Warwickshire Regiment: Warwick01.jpg Warwick02.jpg Warwick02.jpg
     
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  16. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is the entry for 7th Royal Norfolk Regiment:
    Norfolk01.jpg Norfolk02.jpg
     
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  17. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is the entry for 2nd/5th Lancashire Fusiliers:
    LF01.jpg LF02.jpg
     
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  18. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Here is the entry for 7th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers M-G:
    RNF01.jpg
     
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  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    chap on left has 1 arm of service strip under formation sign.
    senior brigade of the division.
    does that help narrow it down & has it been mentioned yet?
     
  20. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    In the 59th, I assume that would be the 176th rather that the 177th or 197th.
     

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