Holocaust Deniers - what I really don't understand:

Perhaps I should have clarified.

Unprecedented in terms of the scale, organization and systemic methods employed. Irrational in that while Germany was desperate for slave labour to support the war effort their ideology led them to slaughter the very people who could have performed that work.

 

In some ways it is simply a mindset not dissimilar to the many conspiracy theorists who abound. On this side of the pond the most recent example is the anti-vaccination crowd. No amount of history or proven science will dissuade them.

 

You can never convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong, as they will claim that any evidence that apparently disproves their theory has been fabricated by the alleged conspirators.

 

Some clarity comes to me eventually after pondering this for some time - might it be the case that these people think here is some possibility, however remote in adopting the myth of the clean Nazi - for example that sort of worship of the Aryan stereotype which nationalists of many hues often adopt - great fighting men, pure breed blah blah blah? Of course the reality of a well designed slave labour programme run by industrialists, backed up by a legal system designed to make it easier to dispossess and then exterminate certain races and creeds, degenerating into the kind of wholesale slaughter that the Holocaust became would be far too dirty and disgusting for people who worship big blonde blokes in nice uniforms? I have the feeling this doesn't scratch the surface and unlike VP, I don't often venture there, except occasionally in pursuit of German attitudes towards black troops....

 

One really needs an ology to understand this subject, I don't have one so I'll put this into simple words, deniers are pratts you cannot argue with proven history although the Germans and many others would like to think this. You might note that I call them Germans and not nazies, nazisum was a political party, just a name. Why not call them Germans or is that politically incorrect these days.

 

Point taken

 

As I understand them, the Holocaust deniers concentrate on gas chambers. They admit that large numbers of Jews died of starvation or overwork or were shot, but refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence that millions were gassed. Without the gas chambers, they can argue that these deaths, whilst regrettable were the result of food shortages throughout Europe and a brutal war on the Easter Front.

If their idiotic views were true, then the crimes of Hitler's Germany would not be as bad as those of Stalin's USSR and no worse than many actions of other empires, notably slavery.

I would therefore suggest that they have two objectives: firstly to rehabilitate Hitler and secondly to discredit the governments of the wartime Allies and Israel. By doing so they hope to facilitate the return of National Socialism. Hitler's objective of wiping out the Jews would be largely achieved because Israel. without support from the USA, would be overrun by its local enemies.

 

This becomes then very similar to the argument over the SS murdering prisoners. The oft heard refrain is that the Allies did it too. The argument being that it was an unintended consequence of war and randomly perpetrated by individuals. As with the gas chambers, they stay far away from any acknowledgement that is was directed, planned, deliberate and intentional.

 

Pure nonsense. I cannot let this go by unchallenged. How to begin? Williamson is not a Catholic in the generally accepted sense. He believes the Catholic administration in Rome is under "the power or Satan.". He is not a bishop by authority of Rome, but of a local ultra-conservative movement in Britain. No surprise he was excommunicated for these shenanigans.
He opposes women wearing trousers or shorts, women attending college or university, and women having careers. He denies that the World Trade Center 9/11 attacks were were terrorist attacks but instead insists they were staged by the U.S. government.He has also said that the 2005 London bombings were an "inside job. Williamson condemns the Jews. He called them the "enemies of Christ." He says that Jews and Freemasons have contributed to the "changes and corruption" in the Catholic Church.He has also stated that Jews aim at world dominion and believes The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to be authentic.

As for Holocaust numbers, he stated: "I believe that the historical evidence is strongly against, is hugely against six million Jews having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler", and "I think that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, but none of them in gas chambers."

These Holocaust views and numbers are ridiculous.

In regard to historically researched and accepted numbers for the Holocaust, try:

Jews

5.93 million



Soviet POWs

2–3 million



Ethnic Poles

1.8–2 million



Serbs

300,000–500,000



Disabled

270,000



Romani

90,000–220,000



Freemasons

80,000–200,000


There is no way to make "Catholic" victims outnumber Jews.

 

Its news to me that a Veteran talks " pure nonsense". If only Tom could give a reply. mconrad, you would have had one hell of a debate going on here. This subject is not my bag. What is your source for the numbers you have mentioned?

Regards,
Stu.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Williamson_(bishop)

for some reason it wont link direct. Click the top name in the list

He is a denier.

 

Adam, please correct me if I'm wrong. Are you calling for a end to this debate? If so, I don't think its cricket.. You started the debate.

No worries
Stu..