Hitler's Biggest Mistake

Discussion in 'General' started by paulyb102, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. barbed wire

    barbed wire Junior Member

    "Hitler, now there was a painter. He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon, TWO COATS!" - The Producers :)


    Would that include the living room as well, sorry i mean Lebensraum ("living space").
     
  2. sparky34

    sparky34 Senior Member

    HITLERS .biggest mistake was not attacking RUSSIA to soon but to late .
    I read he would have attacked earlier , but had to divert troops to GREECE
    thus putting the invasion back to a later date that caught him up in a winter war .
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Yes sir, lebensraum is included in a global amount budget base. If you require textured finish there will have to be a small extra :D

    ------

    Sparky, if you had read a bit deeper into the subject Barbarossa could not have started before the date it did because of ground conditions. They simply had to wait before the weather became drier and the roads became solid enough. Greece or no Greece they had to wait anyway.
     
  4. Trix

    Trix Member

    surely his biggest mistake was thinking that he could get all that he desired and letting his greed get the better of him. lets face it we (the allies) had let him take all of what he wanted at the begining but he just pushed it to far............................
     
  5. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    I would step back even further and suggest that starting the war in 1939, before Germany was fully prepared to wage war on a massive scale was the first major error. Two more years of production and preparation might have made an enormous difference. I doubt that Allies would have done much in that period to prepare (Chamberlain!).
     
  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I would say starting the war at all. The successful string of small cheap opportunistic diplomatic victories with no opposition (Rheinland, Austria, Czchoslovakia) fed Adolf's ego and with it came hubris. Poland was to be another cheap victory but other people simply decided it was time to stop the hand wringing. Choice of allies also proved to be remarkably poor, the European allies being just dragged along against their will, and Japan fighting a completely separate war. It would all have to give somehow sooner or later.

    Now if I could read all this paragraph aloud using a fatuous voice I would sound just like The History Channel :D
     
  7. L J

    L J Senior Member

    I would step back even further and suggest that starting the war in 1939, before Germany was fully prepared to wage war on a massive scale was the first major error. Two more years of production and preparation might have made an enormous difference. I doubt that Allies would have done much in that period to prepare (Chamberlain!).
    The opposite is true :in 1940 the British were producing more aircraft than the Germans .If he had waited to 1941,he never could match the war production of France+ the UK +the Empire . Germany had also no raw materials and no foreing currency .
    In 1939 he started a war with Poland ,because he was -wrongfully- convinced that France and the UK would not intervene .
     
  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    The opposite is true :in 1940 the British were producing more aircraft than the Germans .If he had waited to 1941,he never could match the war production of France+ the UK +the Empire . Germany had also no raw materials and no foreing currency .
    In 1939 he started a war with Poland ,because he was -wrongfully- convinced that France and the UK would not intervene .

    LJ,

    I seem to recall in my old grey matter that Hitler was furious with Von Ribbentrop when England and France declared war after the Poland invasion.
    Apparently for not informing him that there was a pact between the UK and Poland and France and Poland.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  9. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    LJ,

    I seem to recall in my old grey matter that Hitler was furious with Von Ribbentrop when England and France declared war after the Poland invasion.
    Apparently for not informing him that there was a pact between the UK and Poland and France and Poland.

    Regards
    Tom

    Hitler did not seem to be good at "asking" questions did he!
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    in 1940 the British were producing more aircraft than the Germans .If he had waited to 1941,he never could match the war production of France+ the UK +the Empire . Germany had also no raw materials and no foreing currency .
    I'd tend to agree with LJ.
    The strike on France was sublimely timed in many ways despite it's somewhat rushed nature. So much heated debate going on in that country's higher military echelons that Adolf's boys could have faced a rather more modernised French military, in behaviour and materiel, had they been given a year or two more to shake things out.
     
  11. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I seem to recall in my old grey matter that Hitler was furious with Von Ribbentrop when England and France declared war after the Poland invasion.
    Apparently for not informing him that there was a pact between the UK and Poland and France and Poland.

    I don't recall this, I thought Hitler was fully aware of the Polish Guarantee...

    A quick browse through Ian Kershaw's 'Hitler' vol. 2, p. 211/2 says:

    ... Sir Neville Henderson, Brit. Ambassador to Berlin was flying to Berchestergaden to deliver the letter composed by the PM Nev. Chamberlain following the cabinet meeting on 22Aug. ... But he left Hitler in no doubt about the Brit. position. A common German-Soviet agreement would not alter GB's obligations to Poland...
    ...
    He (AH) claimed Britain's blank cheque to Poland ruled out negotiations...

    etc, etc, etc.
    AH was aware of a pact.
     
  12. sparky34

    sparky34 Senior Member

    ZA .the barbarrosa attack could have taken place at least a month before
    it nonsense to say the germans had to wait until june 22nd to attack ..
    because of waterlogged ground ..
     
  13. L J

    L J Senior Member

    Excellent point, Prefab. But wasn't he more or less bound to declare war on the US by the Tripartate Pact once the US declared war on Japan? I've always assumed this, but I've never really substantiated it. :unsure:
    Hitler feeling bound by a treaty he had signed ? :D:D:D
    In 1939,when Japan was involved in a big fighting with the Soviet Union,Hitler made a treaty with Stalin .
    In august 1939 Germany was still selling weapons to Nationalist China,that was fighting with Japan .
     
  14. L J

    L J Senior Member

    ZA .the barbarrosa attack could have taken place at least a month before
    it nonsense to say the germans had to wait until june 22nd to attack ..
    because of waterlogged ground ..
    It is nonsense to say that Barbarossa could have taken place at least a month before :D
     
  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I don't recall this, I thought Hitler was fully aware of the Polish Guarantee...

    A quick browse through Ian Kershaw's 'Hitler' vol. 2, p. 211/2 says:

    AH was aware of a pact.

    A couple of sites on the internet, but this Wikipedia also mentions the same with references.

    Whilst wikipedia is not always correct, this article is well referenced to books.

    Hitler always described Britain as his main opponent, and portrayed the coming destruction of Poland as a necessary prelude towards the goal of destroying Britain.[143] A notable contradiction existed in Hitler’s strategic planning between embarking on an anti-British foreign policy, whose major instruments, namely a vastly expanded Kriegsmarine and a Luftwaffe capable of a strategic bombing offensive that would take several years to build, and engaging in reckless short-term actions such as attacking Poland that were likely to cause a general war.[144] Ribbentrop for his part because of his status as the alleged Nazi British expert resolved Hitler’s dilemma by supporting the anti-British line and by repeatedly advising Hitler that Britain would not go to war for Poland in 1939.[145] Ribbentrop informed Hitler that any war with Poland would last for only 24 hours, and that the British would be so stunned with this display of German power that they would not honor their commitments.[146] Ribbentrop supported his analysis of the situation by only showing Hitler diplomatic dispatches that supported his view that neither Britain or France would honor their commitments to Poland. In this, Ribbentrop was particularly supported by the German Ambassador in London, Herbert von Dirksen who reported that Chamberlain knew “the social structure of Britain, even the conception of the British Empire, would not survive the chaos of even a victorious war”, and so would back down over Poland.[147]

    Joachim von Ribbentrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Joachim von Ribbentrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I think it was a case of being somewhat misled by Von Ribbentrop, which appears to be a common practice with the man.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  16. barbed wire

    barbed wire Junior Member

    There is an area in western russia called the Pripyat Marshes which roughly covers 98,419.5 square kilometres (38,000 sq. miles) which the germans considered in their planning of barbarrosa; and in the spring of 1941 russia experienced an exceptional wet spring which if the germans had attacked russia in May could have severely restricted rapid movement had they attacked.
    Yet having said that i dont think that it was the reason they didn't attack. But the delayed launch of barbarrosa spared the germans the real possibility of becoming stuck in the mud. Yet i always thought it was the attack on yugoslavia that affected the german time-table:would appreciate further views on the subject.
     
  17. sparky34

    sparky34 Senior Member

    well let me quote this ..
    ''most historians regard the campaign in greece as decisive in
    determining the course of world war 2 ,, maintaining that it fately
    delayed the axis invasion of the soviet union .''...... i agree ...so there
     
  18. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    It is said that Ribbentrop knew how to hold Hitler's interest and influence him , something his fellow travellers failed to grasp.
    Stumbling into war with the West by misreading what actually took place at Munich , the "going for broke" instinct which Hitler thought to be infallible.
    It blew up in his face and left him with his desired limited war (denied him at Munich) becoming a generalised conflict involving the great powers.

    For me above all it was his gross misunderstanding of Munich and as Tom has pointed out his listening to Ribbentrop - his burning desire to "command a victorious army" , this vain personality trait of his blinded him to what was taking place in political terms.
     
  19. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    There is an area in western russia called the Pripyat Marshes which roughly covers 98,419.5 square kilometres

    Come on, you know we need at least to go into 1/1000s for a figure to be credible :lol:

    But the delayed launch of barbarrosa spared the germans the real possibility of becoming stuck in the mud. Yet i always thought it was the attack on yugoslavia that affected the german time-table:would appreciate further views on the subject.

    I wouldn't contest this statement, insofar as readiness of the units involved is concerned. There were complaints that the material needed repair & refit after the Yugo campaign, and not getting it.

    well let me quote this ..
    ''most historians regard the campaign in greece as decisive in
    determining the course of world war 2 ,, maintaining that it fately
    delayed the axis invasion of the soviet union .''...... i agree ...so there

    Most historians? Which ones?
     
    Heimbrent likes this.
  20. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    I don't think with hindsight that it was - six weeks more in Russia would still have seen the armoured units totally exhausted, the infantry losses mounting , the Germans pushing North , South and Centre without sufficient resources and reserves to achieve a major decision in any of the regions.

    The supply lines were far from adequate - and the material to replinish the wear and tear of getting from Poland to Moscow , Rostov , Murmansk was simply not there.

    You would still have been seeing a German Army which had to contend with the mud and collapse of the Russia road system , waiting for the freeze so the tanks could move again , along with the lack of winter equipment and lubricants.
    It is again with hindsight evident that Hitler was offering no terms , nor did he have any idea where the "end line was going to be" - not that this would cut much ice with Russians , they were hardly going to respect a line drawn in their own country by the Germans.
    Reaching Moscow was one thing taking it would be another and would they have been able to surround and secure the city from the outside world as well as be able to fend off any attempts to relieve it - I doubt this very much.
    With the extra time who knows what Hitler may have done before settling on Moscow , they might not have been any closer to it.
     

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